 Posted Monday, February 12, 2007 5:55 PM
|
|
|
|
Hey, my name is Steve & I was raised in CS until I was 18 (1984), at which time I accepted Christ as my Savior. My family has remained involved in it since. My dad had been involved since his youth, but severe health problems caused a change of heart a month ago- he asked me to take him to the ER. He was subsequently admitted with a diagnosis of severe heart & kidney problems. He was too weak for surgery & I felt lead to read Scripture to him as much as possible. One day I paused after reading Rom 6:23 & asked him if he knew sin was real. He agreed it was & its wages were indeed death. I lead him in a prayer of repentance, followed by his asking Jesus to save him. Over the course of the next week, he continued calling on the name of Jesus to help him, to save him, to fill him as my wife & I continued to read & pray with him. The Lord took him one week after he received Christ as savior.
I am now left with the task of witnessing Christ to my mom & 3 sisters. I don’t wish to hope for another “death bed” conversion so I wrote this piece to counter Mrs. Eddy’s false doctrine; I would like any positive or negative feedback concerning it. Thanks in advance.
Man’s (Hopeless?) Depravity
GEN 6:5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them."
GEN 8:20 Then Noah built an altar to the Lord, and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. 21 And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma. Then the Lord said in His heart, "I will never again curse the ground for man's sake, although the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.
Only the most righteous on earth escaped God’s wrath & punishment; yet even through such as these- the best eight persons on earth, sin tarried on.
ECCL 7:20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin.
The same inspired pen that gave us the truth of Psalm 23 also gives us the truth of Psalm 51:
PS 51: 1 Have mercy upon me, O God, According to Your lovingkindness; according to the multitude of Your tender mercies, blot out my transgressions. 2 Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. 3 For I acknowledge (not deny) my transgressions, and my sin is always before me. 4 Against You, You only, have I sinned, and done this evil in Your sight-that You may be found just when You speak, and blameless when You judge. 5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me. 6 Behold, You desire truth in the inward parts, and in the hidden part You will make me to know wisdom. 7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. 8 Make me hear joy and gladness, that the bones You have broken may rejoice. 9 Hide Your face from my sins, And blot out all my iniquities. 10 Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me. 11 Do not cast me away from Your presence, and do not take Your Holy Spirit from me. 12 Restore to me the joy of Your salvation, and uphold me by Your generous Spirit. 13 Then I will teach transgressors Your ways, and sinners shall be converted to You. 14 Deliver me from the guilt of bloodshed, O God, The God of my salvation, and my tongue shall sing aloud of Your righteousness. 15 O Lord, open my lips, and my mouth shall show forth Your praise. 16 For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it; You do not delight in burnt offering. 17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, A broken and a contrite heart-These, O God, You will not despise.
IS 59:1 Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; nor His ear heavy, that it cannot hear. 2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God; and your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He will not hear. 3 for your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue has muttered perversity. 4 No one calls for justice, nor does any plead for truth. They trust in empty words and speak lies; they conceive evil and bring forth iniquity.
IS 64:5 You meet him who rejoices and does righteousness, Who remembers You in Your ways. You are indeed angry, for we have sinned-In these ways we continue; and we need to be saved. 6 But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousness is like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. 7 And there is no one who calls on Your name, Who stirs himself up to take hold of You; For You have hidden Your face from us, And have consumed us because of our iniquities.
The prophet Isaiah includes himself in this elucidation of man’s true nature. He speaks of a paradox: surely he & others had “stirred (themselves) up to take hold of (Him),” but in this passage the prophet speaks of man’s base nature of sinfulness. Any righteousness we may exude could only result from God’s nature imparted to us, in the individual & immediate sense, by God alone. No true righteousness has ever found man as its source or origin.
JER 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; who can know it?
ROM 3:9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin. 10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one; 11 There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. 12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one." ....19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. ...23 for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
ROM 5:12 Therefore, as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin; and so death passed to all men, because all sinned.
Paul substantiates the events of Genesis 3- the fall of man away from “the image & likeness of God.”
ROM 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am fleshly(1), sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I desire to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I desire not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for the desire is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I desire to do, I do not do; but the evil I desire not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I desire not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who desires to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
(1)- FLESHLY (ROM 7:14)
Sarkikos (sar-kee-kos'); Word Origin: Greek, Adjective, Strong #: 4559
1. fleshly, carnal
a. having the nature of flesh, i.e. under the control of the animal appetites
1. governed by mere human nature not by the Spirit of God
2. having its seat in the animal nature or aroused by the animal nature
3. human: with the included idea of depravity
ROM 11:32 God has shut up all to disobedience, that he might have mercy on all.
GAL 3:22 The Scripture has shut up all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to all who believe.
1JOHN 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
JOHN 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
JOHN 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."
JOHN 4:8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
Since we are mere man, & not God, we should ask God to define “love” for us; & He does exactly that as He continues in verses 9 & 10-
9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.
10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
The Father states the greatest illustration of true love is the real image of His only begotten Son, innocent, yet laden with our iniquity, suffering on a cross “for our sins.”
Are sin, disease, & death real? The answer from God’s Word is clearly yes; it is because of the express reality of these three for which the Father sent His Son into the world. Think what you may with regard to disease, but as Scripture clearly states, sin is very real.
IS 59:9 Therefore justice is far from us, Nor does righteousness overtake us; We look for light, but there is darkness! For brightness, but we walk in blackness! 10 We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes; we stumble at noonday as at twilight; we are as dead men in desolate places. 11 We all growl like bears, and moan sadly like doves; we look for justice, but there is none; for salvation, but it is far from us. 12 For our transgressions are multiplied before You, and our sins testify against us; for our transgressions are with us, and as for our iniquities, we know them (not deny them): 13 In transgressing and lying against the Lord, and departing from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood. 14 Justice is turned back, and righteousness stands afar off; for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter. 15 So truth fails, and he who departs from evil makes himself a prey. Then the Lord saw it, and it displeased Him that there was no justice.
16 He saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor; therefore His own arm (Jesus) brought salvation for Him; and His own righteousness, it sustained Him.
God sought to offer man a means to deal with the otherwise inevitable result of man’s sin: death.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rev 2:11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies. He who overcomes won’t be hurt by the second death.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection (Jesus Christ’s victory over death). Over these, the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with him one thousand years
Rev 21:8 For the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners (lacking belief in the cleansing blood of Jesus, we would all fall under these two categories), abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."
The means I speak of is the cross of Christ & the subsequent resurrection. Jesus was the only one who ever walked the earth who resurrected Himself from the dead (John 2:19- “Destroy this temple & in three days I will raise it up”); this authority stemmed from the fact that He was in fact God dwelling in corporeal flesh; no other man has displayed this power because no other man was ever God incarnate.
Nothing is more fundamental & essential to one’s salvation from eternal death than the intellectual recognition & the heartfelt acceptance of the absolute necessity of Jesus Christ’s work of redemption on the cross.
However, as a prerequisite to this, man must first accept the reality of his base sin nature so as to accept & comprehend the essentialness of the cross.
1COR. 1:22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified; to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God… 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling.
Note, Paul does not focus on man’s carnal need for miraculous “signs,” but on his true need for salvation. Paul doesn’t dwell on Christ’s works of effecting temporal corporeal healing, glorious as those works were; instead his singular message expounded upon Christ’s much greater work of effecting eternal salvation. Luke 17 tells us of ten lepers who were physically healed yet only one was spiritually healed as “he fell at (Jesus’) feet giving Him thanks.”
A life founded upon something or someone other than Jesus the Christ & his atoning work is a life destined for a “dead” end. (The atonement does result in our “at-one-ment” with the Father, but only through our acceptance of our sin delivered by the vicarious work of Jesus at the cross
JOHN 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in the Father, >>>> believe also in Me.<<<<
2 In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.
4 "And where I go you know, and the way you know."
5 Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?"
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Note the language used by Jesus in this passage- “believe in me,” “I go & prepare a place for you,” “receive you to myself,” “I am the Way,” & “no one comes to the Father… except through me,” Only through the person of Jesus Christ can we be saved; the belief in an idea or principle alone does not suffice.
We should always study God’s Word with a sincere readiness to conform our doctrine to His, for anything else is foolishness. God gave us his Word as a loving parent gives instruction to his child: all the truth the beloved child needs, he is given. Likewise, the parent would never allow lies from any deceiver to infiltrate his teachings; we must trust in Scripture alone to determine what we believe. The third chapter of Genesis is every bit as literal & factual as 1:26 & 27. God demonstrates His love for us by preserving His Word, so that we would truly “know the truth;” as difficult as it may be for us to accept.
We all initially come to the Bible with pre-conceived ideas of who He is & how we are to relate to Him; this is our doctrine. Think of our doctrine as a round hole & God’s doctrine as revealed in the Bible as the peg. We notice when the square peg does not fit the round hole; & the wise conform the hole to the peg, while the foolish think something along the lines of “I don’t believe God’s like that” & cut the corners off the square peg (delete, ignore, or rationalize away portions of Scripture) until it fits their doctrine. In this they invert the truth of Genesis 1:26 & 27; they have created, in their own mind, God in man’s image & likeness.
|
|
|
Posted Monday, February 12, 2007 6:44 PM
|
|
|
|
| Welcome, Steve! How wonderful that your father received Christ as his Savior! I'm on my way out the door tonight and won't have time to read through the rest of your post until tomorrow. But I wanted to let you know we're glad you're here. Best wishes, Linda
|
|
|
Posted Wednesday, February 14, 2007 4:34 AM
|
|
|
|
Hello Steve:
Let me second Linda's welcome!
One frustrating aspect of the whole conversion thing is the fact that we don't really do it - it is the Holy Spirit that does the job. To make things harder, it seems that the more we push the issue, the more defensive our loved ones may become.
And I confess - I didn't read your entire post either. This is the internet, and things have to be bite-sized today, as they probably do when you speak to people as well. But I think that you are on the right track - "Christian" Science is an amalgam of Eastern spirituality and old heresies long ago rejected by the Church, and it's inconsistency with the Bible is probably its most exposed flank. Most ex-C.S.ers here seem to have fallen away after really delving into the Bible more thoroughly. But lack of moral foundation is another angle I'm big on right now; how can one have a system of ethics if they deny that wrongdoing/evil exists?
But note that the "utter depravity" thing is a turnoff to many people - probably more so with a CSist, and not all Christians go that far: God created the heavens and the earth, and He saw that was very good! And then He made man in His own image! Yes, He gave man free will, and man abused it, earning "the death" that pride and disobedience entails, and for that we all must suffer. And we all inherit "concupiscence", i.e., an inherent tendency to sin. But I do believe that we can at least come close to mastery of it, with Christ's help, of course, and diligent effort on our part when we subordinate our will His. The world has and still produces many "saints", too!
My advice is to start with the beautiful, logical side of Christianity first. It's the Good News, remember?! Sure, talk about sin and Christian Science's utter inability to address the problem if you can - but be positive, because the message ultimately is positive. Avoid arguments if you can. Be the best Christian you can, and radiate that happiness to them, planting little seeds along the way.
And pray, pray, pray. . .
Birdstrike
|
|
|
Posted Thursday, February 15, 2007 11:24 AM
|
|
|
|
| Steve, I finally had a chance to sit down and read your paper (life is way too busy these days ). I appreciate the work and thought you put into it, and reading it brought back memories of the countless hours I put into gathering and composing witnessing materials for my parents many years ago. My father remained CS until his death, but my mom later made a profession of faith. Your paper has a lot of great Scripture and many good comments to go with it, but reading "from the perspective of a CSist" I found it overwhelming. A great deal of this may simply be because you often put your comments after the Scriptures they support, so the reader has to read a long way before discovering your point. The point you are leading up to may be obvious to a Christian, but not to the CSist since they are undoubtedly reading the verses through the CS definitions attached to the words. I suggest that, where possible, you state a point before presenting the verses that back it up. If the verses need to go before a statement of conclusion, find a way to at least introduce the point you're trying to make so that that the reader has an idea of where you're going. Formatting may help too (like indenting the Scripture verses or setting you comments in bold type -- something to help break up the text and categorize it in the reader's mind). The Christian Way Web site has a couple of articles that you might consider sharing with your family. They are entitled: Science and Health and the Bible: Do They Agree on Questions of Eternal Significance? No Final Judgment for Mortals? May God guide and bless you as you reach out to your family! Linda
|
|
|
Posted Friday, February 16, 2007 6:36 AM
|
|
|
|
| Thanks to both Birdstrike & Linda for your feedback. Birdstrike, “It is the Holy Spirit that does the job” Yeah, I understand. The Holy Spirit sent a stranger to me to witness the words “Christian Science isn’t Christian” when I was 18 (he didn’t even know I was a CSist) & then He (the Spirit) continued to witness these same words Himself until I accepted the possibility I could be wrong, seeking the truth in the Scriptures. “note that the "utter depravity" thing is a turnoff to many people” I agree it’s a turnoff, but being a Calvinist in principle, I think that it is critical for law to be preached before grace, repentance before salvation; this is why John the Baptist, though far less than Jesus, preceded Him. My love (& therefore my walk) for the Lord shifted like dry sand until I understood my depth of depravity in relation to the height of Christ’s righteousness, leading me to the place Ps. 51:17 speaks of. We’ll never really understand grace until we perceive law & punishment; grace is the most positive thing about true Christianity. “And pray, pray, pray. . .” Thanks for confirming the Spirit’s conviction to me.
Linda, “I found it overwhelming” Yeah, I don’t intend to throw it all in their lap at once, as that would be overwhelming. I hope to give it to them in oral fashion, a bit at a time, as it is much easier to swallow that way. Also, I sense from the Lord that there is nothing wrong with sugarcoating medicine, as long as the medicine remains full strength. Pray that I find an avenue to apply this as I talk Scripture with them. “I suggest that, where possible, you state a point before presenting the verses that back it up.” Thanks for the helpful analysis. I will give consideration to your point. In my original “Microsoft Word” document, I used italics, underline, & bold print to make it easier to read, but none of this made the transition to the post. I apologize, & would edit it if I could; I did highlight the final statement, as I feel this sums up many CSists (& others) faulty manner of forming doctrine.
|
|
|
Posted Friday, February 16, 2007 2:00 PM
|
|
|
|
| I figured you probably had more formatting than made it into the post. The Holy Spirit sent a stranger to me to witness the words “Christian Science isn’t Christian” when I was 18 (he didn’t even know I was a CSist) Cool! Praise God for how He works!
|
|
|
Posted Saturday, February 17, 2007 12:17 AM
|
|
|
|
Hello Steve,
A warm welcome to the forum! I'm very sorry to hear of your dad's passing, but also thankful to hear that he felt comfortable approaching you to help him get to hospital, and also that he was receptive to praying with you. It shows that some CSists do experience fear when facing death and that they desperately need someone "real" to talk to about their fears and concerns.
Perhaps one of the most effective "witnessing" tools for your remaining family is the simple fact that your dad felt comfortable approaching you and praying with you as he was about to face eternity. Does the family know what transpired, and that he acknowledged his need for a savior in the end? Just the fact that "one of their own" took the initiative to do that gives the rest of them permission to do the same. His example has, no doubt, set some kind of precedent that will make it easier for the others to follow.
I agree with Birdstrike about the need for caution in using scriptures that speak of the total "depravity" of mankind. Your tone and approach will probably have more effect on them than the words you are quoting, at this point, anyway. No matter how true a scripture is, it will be more effective when shared in God's timing. I'm afraid I've alienated my family by being too enthusiastic with sharing things they weren't ready for. They would have been more receptive had I simply laid aside my own agenda and just showed the love of Christ in my behavior! Everything I'm suggesting here, I need to do too!
God bless you!
Barb
|
|
|
Posted Saturday, February 17, 2007 8:18 AM
|
|
|
|
| Barb, "CSists do experience fear" Both my wife & I were moved greatly as we listened to my dad discuss his fear of death.In my 41 years I’ve never seen him express fear of death, but for about 2 weeks before accepting Jesus as his savior, he spoke of just such fear. I believe this was yet another move of God’s precious Holy Spirit, causing him to desire nothing more & nothing less than the facts regarding salvation. “one of the most effective "witnessing" tools for your remaining family is the simple fact that your dad felt comfortable approaching you and praying with you as he was about to face eternity” I agree! “Does the family know what transpired?” I’m not sure how much, if any, he told them over the course of that last week of his life. It was only a week ago that he passed. The memorial was yesterday & I simply read 1 John 4 & said that both my dad & I wept over the full truth of verses 8-10. My wife & I are prayerfully considering the whens & hows of deeper discussion. “I'm afraid I've alienated my family by being too enthusiastic with sharing things they weren't ready for.” Yep, been there myself. When I was 18 & found Scripture that directly contradicted CS, I left CS right away. I did not accept Christ as Savior immediately because I hadn’t studied that far yet. I didn’t know what the truth was, but I knew CS wasn’t it. As the immature are apt to do, I naively hammered my parents with these portions of the Word, expecting them to simply say “Oh, I guess we were wrong,” & throw down a lifelong belief system. As you might expect, it wasn’t quite so simple; I finally stopped the hard tone, & have spent the majority of the past 23 years trying to be a quiet witness. thanks for your input!
|
|
|
|