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Posted Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:19 PM Post #14191
 

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Hello,

Glad to have found this forum.  I was raised by a very devout Christian Science mother, rejected Christian Science as a teen and became a born-again Christian in my late twenties.

The things that gets me most about the Christian Science church is the blatant practice of picking and choosing Bible verses in their topical teachings - something still used to compile the 'Lessons' today.  I attended Christian Science Sunday School regularly for fourteen years, was taught by some very competent people, but didn't know what a disciple was, what an apostle was, who Paul was, who the Jews were or how the Old Testament differed from the New Testament.  And as hard as I tried, I never could quite understand what 'soul' and 'spirit' were. 

I finally started listening to a bothersome born-again Christian sixteen years ago because I couldn't deny that this person's knowledge of the Bible was far superior to my own.  Come to find out, the average lay person in most non-denominational churches had a Bible knowledge far superior to my own!

I had to wonder - why would God inspire the writing of the Bible, but not allow us to fully understand it until Mary Baker Eddy would come along 1900 years later?

The old trick of picking and choosing verses throughout the Bible (in Christian Science, portions of verses), then stringing them together to form a topical 'doctrine of man' is a tired old trick.

I'd be interested to know if anyone else came to similar conclusions...

Posted Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:32 PM Post #14192
 

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thinkforChrist,

Welcome! Glad you found us.

Picking and choosing Bible verses throughout the Bible and stringing them together is indeed a tired old trick. It's also a very human trick and often a temptation for the sake of summarizing a point we think we understand.

The trick that I learned from my CS teacher enriched my understanding of CS and my understanding of the Bible - context. Many disagree, however, that my understanding of CS was in fact enriched as the enrichment led me away for it.

As I discovered verses had a context including the surrounding verses, the Bible as a whole, historical, and cultural, I found that CS left out a lot of the richness, power, and wonder of God's word as well as a lot of the words themselves.

I'm continually in awe of the Bible and how tightly constructed it is. Redefining God's word as CS does leads to loose strings that like a cheap suit come easily unwound. The actual word of God is flawless in spite of more than 40 human authors working over centuries without collaboration except through God.

Can you tell I've found new examples of that in just the last few hours?

Do Go Be Man
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Posted Thursday, December 13, 2007 12:05 PM Post #14193
 

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Welcome thinkerfor Christ!  I can relate to your not knowing who Paul was etc.  After I left CS and really dug into the Bible on my own, I discovered such a wonderful peace and how much I lacked in Biblical knowledge.  To be able to just exist in my own skin and to know that God really did know me as more than some "idea" was incredible.  I also always wondered why God would send Jesus and then have to have MBE "discover" what he really meant to say!!! I am curious to know how your mother took your rejection of CS since she was so devout. 
Posted Thursday, December 13, 2007 1:39 PM Post #14194
 

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Welcome, thinkerforChrist!

I'm glad you listened to that bothersome born-again Christian.

I knew a lot about the Bible when I came out of CS, but the problem was that the "facts" I knew were skewed by CS perspectives and definitions, and by verses being taken out of context. I was surprised how different the Bible looked after I started reading it without CS filters.

I attended Principia College and took a couple of Bible courses from very good teachers, one of whom was in the process of earning a Ph.D. having something to do with the Bible. Since leaving CS I have pondered how these profs could be educated about the Bible in non-CS environments and still retain their CS interpretations.

Posted Friday, December 14, 2007 6:36 PM Post #14196
 

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Thank you all for the feedback.  Its wonderful to know there are others out there who have lived a similar story.  Those raised in CS are usually such a tiny minority - and we tend to think we are the only ones who have this unusual background.  How amazing to read through earlier postings and find there are so many of us who were taught that we weren't sinners and denied the existence of the material world all around us.

Linda, I'd like to answer your question about how my relationship with my CS mother has been since I came to Christ (the Messiah, not the force).  She continues to become stronger in CS as she gets older, and has stated she'd like to go to a CS nursing home if it ever comes to that.  On one hand she's thrilled to see all that God has done in my life since I've been saved (she doesn't deny it).  On the other hand, I think she believes I must be growing in 'science', and I just use a different vocabulary.  We had many doctrinal conversations early on, where I exposed some of Mrs. Eddy's wrong teachings.  For example, CS believes that CS is the second coming of Christ, which comes to all of us as we grow in our understanding of 'the Christ'.  I asked my mom, if that were the case, why would Paul have written to the Thesselonians (who were a church and would have already received 'the Christ') about the second coming of Christ as if it were yet to occur?  When she cannot answer, she always falls back on her experiences with CS, claiming that it has healed her and thats all she needs to know.

I've concluded that my mom came to CS because of some extreme wounds which occured early in her life.  She lives very deeply in a kind of delusional CS fantasy world (perhaps you've seen that glazed-over look as well), and CS is like a big bandage covering her wounds.  Rather than argue with her about something that has been very comforting to her, I've opted to have great compassion, respect and patience with her.  When she quotes Mary Baker Eddy to me, I usually smile and nod - and occassionally find the quote something of value, in which case I'll tell her so.  Yet she sees that I never waiver in my beliefs and I raise my own children quite differently.  If she asks me a specific question, I don't back down from stating what I believe to be the truth.  She is at a place now where she regrets some of the decisions she made in life (a very new development), but fails to acknowledge that her CS reasoning played a huge role in all of those bad decisions.  Perhaps this is small progress.  I don't know what else to do at this point.

I am very encouraged to see there are many on this message board who were very high up in CS - class taught, practioners and so forth - who have since come to know the Jesus of the Bible.  I'll be praying for your wonderful ministry..

Posted Thursday, December 20, 2007 7:40 AM Post #14203
 

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On one hand she's thrilled to see all that God has done in my life since I've been saved (she doesn't deny it).  On the other hand, I think she believes I must be growing in 'science', and I just use a different vocabulary.

I can see how your mom might think that. MBE's definitions for biblical terms supposedly lend spiritual clarification rather than contradiction to the original meanings. Since your mom thinks she merely has a clearer understanding than you and other non-CS Christians, she can assume that you are still moving in the same spiritual direction as CS -- although at a slower pace. It goes with the CS teaching that everyone will eventually come to an understanding of CS (if not here, then in a later stage of consciousness). I think that's why mosts CSists feel no real pressure to share their faith -- everyone will eventually understand it anyway, and there is no final judgment to worry about.

When she cannot answer, she always falls back on her experiences with CS, claiming that it has healed her and thats all she needs to know.

That's really typical -- and frustrating since it gives her a way to avoid thinking about the things she can't explain.

She lives very deeply in a kind of delusional CS fantasy world (perhaps you've seen that glazed-over look as well), and CS is like a big bandage covering her wounds.  Rather than argue with her about something that has been very comforting to her, I've opted to have great compassion, respect and patience with her.... If she asks me a specific question, I don't back down from stating what I believe to be the truth. 

Sounds like a good approach. You sound very kind.

I'll be praying for your wonderful ministry..

Thanks!

Posted Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:19 AM Post #14225
Anonymous 
Just happened across your web site...yes CS has problems.....not everyone who prays gets healed..we all "die"..prayer doesn't always work..that said...Ms. Eddy had a healing..she made an effort to understand it...we all are making an effort to understand the Bible. It is - to me - a book..we cannnot interview those who wrote it...well, can there really be a virgin birth...do you really beleive that? If you beleive the Bible, why? If a Cs, or Catholic or Baptist is unloving, critical, sickly or hateful..is that a reflection of his religious views or just the person is that the religions problem or the persons problem..a lack of understanding of God, or spiritual love or???? Yes, CS suffer horrible illness's and die..so do atheists, nuns, preachers, doctors and nurses and soome also get healed....what does it mean? Why?

Did Jesus die for my sins? We want to beleive the Bible in all it's mystery...hey, did Jesus walk on the water..did his disciples? CS asserts there is no matter? Can this enable someone to walk across the water? Yeah?..so do it..Jesus did right? We follow him supposedly..so do it!

Yes, I struggle with spirtual healing...i have talked to and written about many who have been healed..and verified their stories plus had my own unique wonderful and blessed spiritual experience re: death that was absolutely, undeniably confirmed by a dedicated CS. Maybe I'll never emulate that..it's not important to me. What is, is W H A T is it in the universe that enables overcoming matter by some and not others? Why is it we look to the Bible..an ancient book for guidance? How many spiritual men and women are there in the world who have read the Bible, Science and Health and so many, many other thoughtful and earnest writings by individuals who have the benefit of the computer, TV, telephone. libraries et al for knowledge, verification, insight, questioning, Q&A's et al......yet the Bible is the only fulcrum that many people consider? hmmmm? Is that a "sinful" statement?

Finally, much of CS is good with-for me....nothing it seems is 100% perfect in life. To me the Bible is a book written centuries ago,,not perfect and i'm not going to hitch my star to it completely..think of the centuries that have passed since then..think of all the spiritual seekers who have studed, written, experienced and shared wonderul spirtitual insights and revelations...wow..think of Ms. Eddy..during aspects of the Victorian times saying there is "no matter" and now we have non religious physicists and mathmeticians, et al concurring?


there is much to learn....it starts with the universe and eternity..eternity...no beginning and no end? Wow..hard to believe....and the Bible explains all that..really? Does it? "Seek ye first the kingdom of heaven then all things shall be added unto you." Onward.
Posted Thursday, January 03, 2008 9:29 AM Post #14228
 

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Anonymous,

Welcome to the forums! It's nice to meet you.

Ms. Eddy had a healing..she made an effort to understand it...


Hmm...I'd be more impressed by that healing if she hadn't tried to extract money from the City of Lynn six months later on the grounds that she was still suffering. That "healing" seems like a shaky basis from which to launch a whole new religion.

Regarding why we should heed the Bible -- You seem to view it as the writings of a bunch of men who simply recorded their ideas. If that's the case, then you're right that it should be superceded by more modern ideas. But if God chose to reveal himself through the writings of men -- and if he directed those writings -- then I doubt that they would become less relevant with time. The Bible contains too many fulfilled prophesies for me to think it was just the writings of a bunch of guys. And, incidentally, it's odd that Mrs. Eddy would say that CS is based on the Bible if it's so outdated and full of mistakes. Like her "healing" from her fall on the ice, she seems to have based her CS teachings on a faulty foundation if the Bible is what she makes it out to be.

Let's take this discussion to a new thread if you feel like discussing it further. It might fit better in the Doctrinal category.
Posted Thursday, January 03, 2008 2:48 PM Post #14231
 

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Let's take this discussion to a new thread if you feel like discussing it further.

I see that Do Go Be Man has done this. See the thread The Writings of a Bunch of Men in the Doctrinal and Bible Related Issues category.

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