 Posted Sunday, January 27, 2008 10:00 PM
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Hello all, I'm in the process of registering with the forum (I'm waiting on a confirmation email) but wanted to get some feedback/support for my pending situation. I had been raised fundamental christian (non-denominational) and fully walk in the grace of Jesus. I am fervently seeking after the Lord and been asking for some clarification from him on my coming marriage.
From the day that I met my fiance, I KNEW that I was going to marry him. We talked a lot in the beginning about some differences that we recognized. He's a third generation CSist, father is 1st reader at their church, brother is 2nd reader at their local church - very much CS invested environment. They are a VERY loving and moral family! I am convicted by how morally just they are in comparison to even myself as a walking christian and other christian friends I have. Since we've been together I have such a burning place in my heart for their family and their church family- not even to mention the great love I have for my fiance. As we're getting closer to the date, we've been beginning to talk to folks about pre-marital counseling. This has brought such great distress oh my part. 1 Cor. 7- Wow! What a wake up call to what marriage is supposed to look like. I feel like God is opening up every can of worms possible to have be really evaluate what I am supposed to do.
My fiance has told me just recently that he is really fed up with the whole denial of the physical reality simply because it is not how we really live. He said that he doesn't believe the CS has all of the answers but that he has serious question about what I believe. (I have been praying fervently since we met that God would soften his heart to the truth of who Christ really is and what is false in his life- this admission of his was HUGE when compared to our past conversations) He's having a REALLY hard time with the sinful man idea. The discussion about us having children and me believing that our children will be sinful is horrifying to him. I am really trying to seek the Lord's plan for us, it's a hard row to hoe when you want to marry someone and feel like you truly may be unequally yoked.
Does anyone have some personal insight to how better to approach him about the inconsistencies of CS. He seems pretty bitter about me believing strictly the bible and all of it's truths (sin in all of it's glory, grace, the real significance of Jesus). We are so in love, can we make a marriage work? Anybody with a similar story? My family, friends, church leaders believe that I am in a situation very similar to Abraham with Issac- When God called him to sacrifice Issac to show is dedication to Him. Based on scripture, through the fundamental eye- I am truly choosing to trust and follow God's plan for my life and tell my fiance that I cannot marry him unless he sees and accepts Jesus for who he is, or I'm disobeying God's perfect plan for me.
Hopefully registered soon,
HIS Face
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Posted Monday, January 28, 2008 6:30 AM
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HIS Face,
Welcome! We have a lot on the topic of marriage to CSists already on the forums. When I get my day better settled, I will reread your message and respond better.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Tuesday, January 29, 2008 8:49 AM
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| Hi HIS Face, Sounds like you're in a tough situation. You're right that if you marry your fiancee you will be unequally yoked, as CS beliefs contradict nearly every doctrine central to biblical Christianity. You might find it helpful to read some of the other threads that discuss mixed CS-nonCS marriages. John gives an interesting description of living in such a household in post #14251 in the CS and nonCS Marriages thread. I understand your fiancee's perspective on issues like sin and the inerrancy of the Bible, as I was in CS for 30 years. These things just didn't make sense to me when I was in CS; in fact, I quietly maintained the typical CS attitude that I had the "graduate school" level of understanding while my born again Christian friends only had a "kindergarten" level of understanding. There did come a point at which I decided to build a better foundation for my understanding of CS by reading straight through the New Testament -- and I was hit in the face by Romans 3:23-25a, which basically summed up everything my Christian friends had been saying to me: "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood." (NIV, emphasis added) Everything changed at that moment, and I was open to what the Bible had to say rather than insisting on the CS interpretation of the Bible. If you haven't already, I recommend that you and your fiancee talk through the definitions of the words you're using. He may not realize how much CS has affected his ability to understand what you're saying to him (and vice versa) during your discussions. The CS and the Bible section of the Christian Way web site will help you with some of these differences, as will the Glossary in Science & Health. Be aware that Eddy has also changed the meanings of words like "atonement," which she has completely turned on its head by saying that it means "at-one-ment." Also, make sure that your fiancee understands the concept of sin. He probably thinks of it as something huge (murder, for example) rather than understanding that it refers to any transgression against God's standards. He is probably horrified that you would think your future children capable of murder, but he might be more willing to acknowledge that they have the potential to be sneaky, to not share toys, to lie, etc. If he can't accept this, ask him if he has ever known a perfectly behaved CS child. It sounds like you have a wedding date -- when is it?
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Posted Tuesday, January 29, 2008 2:40 PM
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HIS face,
Welcome to the forums. I read your post carefully, to try to be sure I'm not giving advice that you didn't ask for. I can't really tell you how to approach your fiance in order to persuade him to come around to your understanding, but I would like to respond to your question as to whether you believe your marriage can work.
I think my opinion may be different than others you will hear on this forum. I don't think your marriage would be considered by everyone to be an example of 'unequally yoked'. There are different interpretations of that verse, and it must be considered in context in the first place. I remember reading somewhere once that the verse warned followers of Christ to avoid marriages with pagans or those who practiced the worship of many different gods. Your fiance believes in God! He does not reject Christ, even though he does not have the same level of understanding that you do. He may not be there yet, but he has not yet begun to learn about the Bible without the filter of Christian Science. I can well remember the challenge it was for me to accept that man was not basically good, but exactly the opposite. The fact that he has become disillusioned with CS means he will become open to learning to think in a different way. I know it is hard for you to understand, but it is really a whole new way to look at life. Maybe it would help to ask him to study and learn on his own, without hearing explanations from you either. It is a journey. Maybe the fact that he no longer believes that matter is unreal (believe me, that is huge!) means that God is already working in his life. Celebrate!
Two people can sit in church together every week, and still interpret verses differently. They can also mature spiritually at different rates, fall in and out of fervor and interest, and switch denominations. Religious commitment tends to be personal, and can be changeable and influenced by many factors. I seem to be becoming more conservative and less denominational, but it has taken years to get here. My husband and I speak freely about our beliefs, and when we disagree we challenge each other to prove it! It has helped us to grow together.
A man who has grown up in a loving family will usually be a loving husband and father. There is so much to be said for that! You seem to love him very much. Marriage is full of challenges which require grace on the part of each spouse. I think someone who has a stable family background is usually well grounded, and able to give that grace and to remain faithful and committed. I guess I would like you to see that that is a gift.
My mother was a CS and my father was not. They truly had one of the best marriages I have ever seen. To me, the greater problem is the issue of deciding whether or not the children will be raised in CS. It is not the same thing as a marriage in which parents must choose whether or not the children attend the Baptist church with Mom or the Lutheran church with Dad. If you give a CS parent permission to raise a child in CS, you must deal with the issue of the withholding of medical care. It sounds as if this is not going to become a problem if you marry this man, but to me is the most important issue you face.
I hope that you two can work your way through this by simply postponing the wedding and seeking direction as you try to get on the same page. I think this can all turn out for good. I really wish you both the best.
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Posted Saturday, February 02, 2008 4:57 AM
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| Hello, I am a Man who married a CS Woman, and at this point I would advise you to think about it a long time before you marry him. What I have learned is that a CS will make your life very difficult. You will never be able to share your faith with him because he is already convienced you are wrong and that the established churches corrupt. You will never be able to get any feeling from them when you are in pain because they are taught that pain is not real. Wyou will watch them be sick or even have a headache and refuse to even take an asprin. WHen comercials come on tv about canser or heart diease they will laugh. I fell once and was bleading and had several brusies and she told me to get up that i had fell in gods hands and that i would be ok. I urge you to truely study CS before you marry this man, because if I had really under stood her faith and what they belive I would have understood that there could never be a marriage they way god intnded. Read what Paul says about Marriage and then read in Gensis. A CS doesn't take what the bible says as serious as you may think. If Mrs. Eddy doesn't say it then it isn't a part of their belief.
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Posted Saturday, February 02, 2008 5:06 AM
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| In reading your post again, I see that the Bible is very important to you. A CS doesn't take the bible as it its the Word of god. We as Christians believe that the BIBLE is all you need. A CS belives that Mrs. Eddy's book is the answer so you will never be able to talk about the bible with your husband to be. He is incapeable of thinking about the bible with out MRS> EDDY to tell him what he should think. Yes think very hard about what the bible says about marriage in Corenthians, before you marry. I made the mistake of assuming because that Cs had christian in their name they were christions, but have learnde that they are anything but christians.
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Posted Wednesday, February 06, 2008 12:21 PM
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Perhaps the best advice I could give is be prepared with an armor of patience. My husband and I got married a few years ago and we are in our late 20s. In my early twenties I was trying my best to be the best Christian Scientist I could be. I remember that my aunt would try to challenge my beliefs and since CS was all I knew I would get defensive and refuse to open my mind. At the same time I was beginning to get re-united with a good friend of mine from high school (non-CS and now my husband). Although it was a tough topic to discuss, he also would ask me tough questions about my religion. Hence our dialogue would begin. My point is that this communicating and dialoging is imperative on the subject of religion and belief. It's a tough and uncomfortable place to be in for the CSist to be in, and tough for the other person too because of fear of being too pushy. It is a matter of finding the balance and overcoming the hurdle of a tough topic. At first I was defensive, however, a small part of me was not 100% comfortable with CS itself. I had questions about the religion myself that still remained unanswered. Allow him to communicate freely about his beliefs and while you listen to him, perhaps his unanswered questions will surface. It has taken me a good two years to slowly come out of CS, however this varies from person to person. May you find this helpful and best of luck.
Frogs
Fully Relying On God for Salvation
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Posted Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:55 AM
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[font=Verdana]Hello again, sorry for my absence and thank you for all of your heartfelt replies! I am really thankful to have found such a dynamic forum and discussion group. I'm going to try to answer some of the questions that have been asked and give you all a little more detail.
As for when we are getting married- May 25th, 2008. I can't believe that it is just around the corner! We've been engaged since late Dec. 06 and were encouraged to wait until I graduated. We are joyfully, excitedly, and lovingly moving forward with our marriage with the prayer that God is in control and that He is all powerful and will handle and use our differences for His glory.
It was mentioned by someone, I think that even though we do not take hold of christianity the same way, we DO still believe in the same God/Creator. I have to say, we really cling to that. We are often talking and counting on God to heal this gap that we seem to have and our differences. My fiance has, similarly to FROG mentioned his lack of confidence in CS- he's not renouncing it, but quietly admitting he's not sure about all of it's claimed truths.
I recently received an email about a woman who was married to a CS- the man became sick and over a long and loving marriage, on his death bed he called out for Jesus. His son asked him what his mother, the man's wife had said or did that finally made him see the Truth. The very sick husband said she said nothing, but her Love said everything. As I thought about this touching email- I thought about how different approaches are key to different people, but truly we are called by Jesus to LOVE. We are called and told by paul to be ALL things to ALL people- and I'm not always sure how this is supposed to look- but over all, how effective and important is it to LOVE people. When I was talking with all sorts of people for insight on whether I should move forward with my wedding- my grandmother said something that really struck me- She said "Abe needs to know that you Love him for exactly who he is, or He'll never understand Jesus' true love." I really struggled with that- because who he IS doesn't know Jesus right now the way I want him to- but who He really is who God is continually calling him to be. It isn't really my call or judgement that can try to manipulate who he is- beliefs or not.
This all may seem like ramble, but I hope not-
Hopeful and Lovingly!
HIS face[/font]
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Posted Thursday, February 21, 2008 12:49 PM
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| HIS Face, Wow -- you must be excited that May is getting close after being engaged for over a year. I think you were wise to wait until graduation. It was mentioned by someone, I think that even though we do not take hold of christianity the same way, we DO still believe in the same God/Creator. After spending 30 years in CS before finding the God of the Bible, I have to disagree. The CS god is a set of qualities (Principle, Mind, Soul, Spirit, Life, Truth, Love) but is not the personal, triune God of the Bible. The CS god cannot know you intimately as the God of the Bibe does. The CS god knows nothing of our humanity, our emotions, our frailties, our hurts, and our need for a Savior. The CS god did not pay the price for our sins by dying on the cross as the Jesus of the Bible did (CS claims that Jesus died on the cross to prove the unreality of death -- not to pay for our sins). The god of CS misses the point of who Jesus is and denies him his rightful place in the Trinity. The god/creator I knew in CS is nothing like the God/Creator I know now. Your fiance will, no doubt, say that he and you believe in the same God. But I urge you to share deeply with each other about who and what God is -- you both need to recognize the differences in your beliefs.
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Posted Thursday, February 21, 2008 2:36 PM
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HIS Face:
As one who grew up in a mixed household with a Christian mother and CS father, I can tell you that Linda is definitely correct. Although scripture and verse was not quoted daily, it was not easy growing up in a household where two entirely different views on God, Christ and the Bible were held.
If you really want to know what your fiance and his family have taken to heart regarding the definitions of God, Jesus, the Christ (the two are defined separately by CS), Church, Death, Heaven, Holy Ghost, Salvation, etc. etc., please go to the Glossary of Terms in Science and Health from pages 579-599. (if you have not already done so). Know that any time you or your loved one mentions these and all other terms noted in these pages, these are the meanings that have been taken to the inner workings of their soul. There they reside are hard to dislodge.
In later years, when I became a Christian, I'll never forget that I took my Dad to my church one time. We talked about the message afterwards, and it became apparent qu | | | |