New member-coming to terms with grief re. CS
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Posted Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:09 AM Post #14467
 

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Hi, I am rosebud3,

   Glad to have someone to talk to. My father was CS before I was born but quit due to a health related experience he had so we were raised Presbyterians. My father's brother and family are CS. To further complicate this I am a medical nurse and was in the midst of a migraine and serious emotional turmoil the last time I saw my Uncle. This was over 10 years ago. I was sitting beside him at Thanksgiving dinner and I could see all the symptoms of a heart condition but did not tell him. Within a year he died of heart failure. When I was there the family seemed to be trying to heal me and it did help, but I also felt de-valued, not only for some of my life choices but also for the thing that I did have to offer that I didn't share that could have saved his life.

   There has also been another early unexplained death in their family and I feel guilty and invisible. There is a lot wrong in the medical world too and I have been studying CS for 2 years, made some friends, prayed with a practioner and even recently was thinking about class. This may sound odd as of the 2 deaths I mentioned but having experienced healing in CS and loving my extended family so much I thought perhaps something would come out of this that would benefit all. Then I wrote to a practitioner that I truly felt God was leading me to, even though I didn't particularly care for some things I had heard about this person, and the practitioner said teaching me wasn't the right step for the practitioner. Later I found myself grieving my Uncle's death again and understanding God to say to me that Love is the most important . It is like looking at a circle and Love is the center and all action needs to proceed from that center but I can't seem to move or connect , find the tangible direction to take.

    I just wanted to connect and talk about this because I think it is what I need to do. There is a lot more where this comes from. Thanks for being there.

Posted Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:29 AM Post #14468
 

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Rosebud3,

Welcome to the forums! Glad you are here.

No doubt about it, the medical industry has its share of errors, unethical behavior, and ignorance. I could never pretend to defend many of the specifics of medical practices. I'm sure you have seen more than your share of the shortcomings in the medical industry.

As you really come to know and understand CS, however, you may find greater shortcomings than you've already encountered. It took more than 30 years including CS class for me to come to understand the fallacies. One of the "nails in the coffin of CS" for me was hearing about CS nursing training and the expectations the school had for the students. A friend who tried to go into CS nursing on my recommendation told tales that sounded like Dickens' workhouses.

You mentioned that you were raised as a Presbyterian. What "flavor" of Presbyterian were you? PCUSA, PCA, OPC, EPC, etc.?

Do Go Be Man
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Posted Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:52 PM Post #14475
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Do Go Be Man,

PCUSA and still am. I have been deacon, been through Stephen Ministry training, helped in Christian Ed and most recently was an Elder. They say that ordinations are forever , so I guess I am a deacon and an elder forever. I have also been fully immersed water baptized in a Born Again Christian Church, spoken in tongues, lived in a Yoga Ashram etc. I was originally baptized into the PCUSA as an infant.
My husband is Born Again was presbyterian for a while, was raised Unitarian and gets frustrated trying to find his fit. There is a lot of religious discussion and Bible reading in this house. My husband believes people need to find their own way into relationship with Jesus Christ and is disturbed that people seem to be getting their faith through other people's doctrines etc. He just wrote a book to help the average person get an overview and start on the Bible and encourages the reader to seek Jesus out personally and through Biblical study.
The CS service is too boring and regimented for me so I have been going to my Presbyterian Church. I do believe that the CS church has a lot of excellent tools for reaching out to people. It's easy to go to a Reading Room and I have made some lovely friends that way.
Just wrote a poem about my Uncle today. Maybe someday I'll post it. God Bless, Rosebud3 PS: The practitioner who has prayed for me has been an ever present help in the past year.
Posted Friday, April 25, 2008 5:36 PM Post #14491
 

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Rosebud3,

Please forgive what may appear to be ingracious sarcasm. As one of those dissident PCA-types who clings to the concept of Biblical inerrancy (in the original texts), I would expect a degree of confusion in a household influenced by PCUSA, Unitarianism, and CS. That's a mix representing pieces with which I have experience, but not all at once. Obviously, that has not been your experience, but it has been mine.

One of the things that pushed me away from CS was the concept of Biblical falibility and errancy. Accepting the Bible as mere legend or corrupted wisdom leads to a collapse of logic that ultimately requires abandoning Christianity. While I was a PCUSA member after coming out of CS, my pastor told me that "Scripture is irrelevant". I soon discovered that to be the case for the PCUSA in general. I could not accept the lack of foundational theology that represented. I also noticed that even with a CS background that I had more knowledge of the Bible than most of my fellow church members.

My encounters with Unitarianism include posts on these forums, family members, and friends. From my perspective, believing in everything means believing in nothing.

CS simply does not concur with its alleged foundation of the Scriptures. Only by deleting large chunks of the Bible and redefining others, does it make sense.

Do Go Be Man
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Posted Friday, April 25, 2008 5:48 PM Post #14492
 

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I think very simply, that if one just looks at the words of Jesus, he did not say anything remotely resembling the Christian Science slant other than the message of love.  IF disease were truly just an illusion, I think he would have said it.  He healed instantly and completely and didn't put the sufferer through any mental gymnastics to get the healing. His work was final and complete and did not need anyone to come after him to "clarify" or modify anything he taught.  He acknowledged and ministered to human suffering with compassion and love.  He NEVER told anyone that they needed to "correct their thought" before they would get a healing!
Posted Saturday, April 26, 2008 10:14 AM Post #14499
 

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Do Go Be Man,

 I don't take your response as ungracious sarcasam. You are just stating what you believe; that's honesty as far as I'm concerned. My church has quite a mix of the spectrum. My husband finds my church too liberal and I don't think he is a member of the PCUSA. I can understand why you say that in CS it seemed you had more exposure to the Bible than the PCUSA, as we get about 3 readings in a service and then a sermon. There are many independent Bible Study groups and different Christian ED. instructors who delve deeply into the Bible. My Pastor would never say scripture is irrelevant, it is what we base our faith on.     Sincerely, Rosebud3   By the way, it was a jewish friend of mine (who died of ovarian cancer)who introduced me to CBS, and we studied Deuteronomy and Psalms extensively. It was like taking a college course. 

Posted Saturday, April 26, 2008 10:27 AM Post #14500
 

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Dear Gentle Dove,

             I love the way that you put that. It really clarifies a lot. I have come to the same conclusion about what you say about Love in the beginning of your reply. I put most of my CS literature and books in a box this AM as a way of validating my study of it for 2 years and setting the obsessive reading of it aside. Actually, some of what helped me in this process was communications with CS practitioners. I've needed to find a sense of my value to God so I can connect tangibly with our world in a loving way. I think some of the attraction of CS study for me was because I needed to feel comforted when I was afraid and did not know how to connect, as I am going through transition right now. Thanks for the reply. Rosebud3. 

Posted Thursday, May 01, 2008 12:33 PM Post #14518
 

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I love the idea that God loves us all, unconditionally, irrespectively of where we are in life. Of what church we attend, or even no church. We can never be outside of His/Her love. And He/She offers us spiritual solutions to all our problems. If you have a problem, She has the solution. By the way, you will notice that both the masculine and the feminine are in the 'She.' I feel it is our task to be humble and open enough, and spiritually curious enough, to reach out, open up our thought enough to find these, solutions. We all, myself included, have so much more potential than we may realize. Finding and living our boundless potential can be such a wonderful, even fun adventure. There is no limit to what we can do when we have dedication and commitment, pure and loving motives, with a wide open thought.
Bruce of San Francisco, CA


Bruce Cunningham
Posted Thursday, May 01, 2008 12:43 PM Post #14519
 

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[Moderator's note: this message was moved to New to Forums -- Introductions and Personal... » Introduction message posted by cunninghambruce]

Bruce Cunningham
Posted Saturday, May 03, 2008 3:20 PM Post #14528
 

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Hi Rosebud,

Clearly you loved your uncle deeply and seem to feel some guilt that you did not warn him of his heart condition so that he might have done something about it and lived. That is a burden you shouldnt carry through your life.

Although I am not a Christian Scientist, I have been married to one for almost 40 years and I can tell you that they feel it is not good to say those kind of things to a CS'ist when they seem ill, as you are considered to be contributing to the problem.  Most likely he would not have done anything about it anyway, other than "studying", and your words would not have been appreciated. On the contrary, he would have had to mentally deny all you said to him, making his task harder and conceivably, after his death, some fault would have been attributed to you for "voicing the fear".  

His death is not your fault Rosebud.

This is a forum for former CS'ists and most people are not too happy about their CS experiences, myself included. I would warn you against gravitating towards a religion because you like some practitioner or some people you have met. Judge a religion by its doctrines and how closely it follows the words of God, and Jesus, and that would be the Bible, right?  Christian Scientists dont carry around the Bible in tmies of trouble the