 Posted Sunday, October 21, 2007 12:50 PM
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| So this may be an obvious question - but I''m interested in hearing thoughts. Where I live - 6 CS churches have closed in 10 years. I drove by the downtown one the other day and it's now in a one room space in a strip mall. It was in a huge very old historical building. I was in "Asher House" which I drove by and the house is being gutted so that sold as well. Seems many traditional churches are going empty in favor of more modern churches no matter what the message is. I attended one when I graduated from Prin. What is not attractive about CS or other traditional religions? Is it a common denomitor? Even the Methodist church nearby has very few people.
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Posted Sunday, October 21, 2007 12:56 PM
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I moved this thread to "CS - General Discussion Not Related to Doctrine" from "Forum Announcements", however, suspect it may quickly turn to doctrine and may need to be moved again.
Do Go Be Man (as co-moderator)
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Posted Sunday, October 28, 2007 4:37 AM
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| There are all sorts of reasons, which will vary here and there. A few to consider to get things started: CS'ists do not proseltyze or evangelize CS'ists have a low marriage rate, especially between co-religionists. How many families do you know where the wife is CS, and the husband is not? Quite a few, I'll bet. CS actually has a higher mortality rate than people realize CS'ists have a low fertility rate. They don't get married as much as the general population, they marry late, and they have fewer children. CS has the lowest rention rate for keping their children in their faith than any other faith, with one exception: their theological close-kin, the Unitarians! Only 1/3 of their offspring remain CS And that's just for starters!
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Posted Sunday, March 02, 2008 9:15 PM
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followingHim (10/28/2007)
CS actually has a higher mortality rate than people realize I'm wondering where you got this statistic.
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Posted Monday, March 03, 2008 4:28 PM
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| I believe that one source is a study done on a population of Principia graduates. As I remember, the study determined they died at a much earlier age than the general population. On a more personal note, of the people I know who were active in the religion, they died waaaay earlier than what is considered average age of death. I know that is not exactly scientific evidence but many of us have lost parents at very early ages when our cohorts enjoy moms and dads way into their later years while we are left orphans. There is also that veil of secrecy in the church so that when someone does die, no one acknowledges or discusses it. It is not uncommon to ask where someone went and you are met with silence, taken away gently and told of the death by some dear, looooovvvving church member. As you may know, there are no autopsies in CS so a truly reliable data base is impossible regarding causes of death and ages of death.
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Posted Monday, March 03, 2008 8:46 PM
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| Gentle Dove, The study to which you're referring was conducted by statistician and Prin alum Dr. Willian Simpson. I commented on it in a previous post but will just copy that post into this message since I'm short on time. The message is from Post #9023 in the "What About Principia?" thread. "Dr. Simpson is a Prin alum, as I recall. Here are the references for Dr. Simpson's two articles:
Simpson, William. "Comparative longevity in a college cohort of Christian Scientists." Journal of the American Medical Association 262 (22-29 Sept. 1989): 1657-8. (Here's a link to the abstract.)
Simpson, William. "Comparative mortality of two college groups, 1945-83." Mortality and Morbidity Weekly Report 40 (23 Aug. 1991): 579-82. Here's the abstract.
I can't find my copies of the articles, but here's a brief synopsis of the results that agrees with what I remember: 'Even though Christian Science tenets forbid the use of alcohol and tobacco, the death rates among those who had graduated from Principia between 1934 and 1948 were higher than those of their University of Kansas counterparts -- 26.2% vs. 20.9% in men, and 11.3% vs. 9.9% in women. A subsequent study comparing the mortality of Christian Scientists and Seventh-day Adventists (who also are admonished to abstain from cigarettes and alcohol) found even greater differences.' (Stephen Barrett, M.D., "Some Thoughts About Faith Healing" -- disclaimer: I grabbed this quote out of Barrett's artilce but haven't taken the time to read the rest of it, so let's not get off on a tangent about faith healing)."
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Posted Tuesday, March 18, 2008 3:48 PM
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| Accentuating this disparity of death rates between CS and non-CS groups is the fact that medicine has made expotential advances in the years following the college graduate cohorts that were studied. If the non-CS enjoyed such a lower mortality rate back then, think of how sharp the divide would be in more recent years with: 1) more sophisticated medical techologies, 2) few smokers in the non-CS cohorts 3) improved nutirtional standars and public consciousness and 4) advanced safety in the world (auto, work, civil engineering, etc.) CS, for all the hype, is not a healt blessing, I'm afraid.
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Posted Wednesday, May 07, 2008 6:22 PM
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There's been an off topic discussion running in another thread regarding the closing of CS churches. This would be the more appropriate place to continue that discussion.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Wednesday, May 07, 2008 6:24 PM
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To pick up the line of discussion I tried in the other thread, why are apparently still some pockets of active CS communities such as the Pasadena church?
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Wednesday, May 07, 2008 6:32 PM
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Moved from Resources ยป Polio: An American Story
Posted by IleftCSin74 May 7, 2008 @ 9:26:19 PM
I have heard of a number of CS churches closing, and their remaining members continuing to meet in some low-cost or no-cost space. Some church in Washington State closed and their remaining members meet in a room at a local college. My old hometown (the Detroit-area) has 1st, 6th, and 8th churches remaining in the city, plus at least half of the suburban churches have closed in the last 30 years. The CS church that I grew-up in was closed back in the 1990s. I remember when one of the inner-city CS churches closed in Detroit on Davison just east of Livernois. One week I drove by there and the sign was gone and in its place was a "for sale or lease" sign. My guess is that happened between 2000 and 2002. And I remember the closing of 3rd church in Cleveland, which was on East 102nd Street just north of Cedar Ave. A friend from where I worked then lived nearby and I used to drive by there back in 1989 and 1990 when the church closed. My old church (Franklin-Meadowlake) at Maple (15 Mile Rd) and Inkster in Bloomfield Township, MI, might have sat 400 in the auditorium and averaged 200 or more on an average Sunday back in the late 1960s through the mid-1970s. By the mid 1990s their attendance was to the point where they couldn't afford to stay open. And just a few miles away is the Presbyterian Cathedral Kirk in the Hills where the local police have to direct traffic on Sunday. Same thing at Temple Emmanuel, a Baptist church in nearby Pontiac, where its a mob scene every Sunday. The New Life Church in Colorado Springs has its own exit off of I-25. They probably average a Sunday attendance in the 12,000 to 14,000 range, in an urban area of 700,000 population. The New Life Church didn't exist when CS was at its peak attendance.
I'll agree that numbering churches in major urban areas wasn't a good idea. Its too bad, but the church is slowly but steadily returning to its carnival side-show roots. Ever remember seeing or reading about those travelling tent churches years ago? Maybe that is something that they could consider to reduce costs: Having a CS revival in a big tent in a public park with wooden benches for pews. They could just print-up the lesson and the hymns in a little 4 page folding brochure too, which would cut way down on weight. Maybe they could find someone with a flatbed truck to haul the tent, treadle-organ, and pews around. If there are enough volunteers they could reduce costs even further. Reducing their costs is critical to the survival of the CS church. | | | |