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RE: Hello! My name is Jim and I'm an ex-CS!

IleftCSin74 — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 04:26:51 GMT

Jim:

You never lose the present-tense in AA. You must say that you ARE an alcoholic or an addict. One reason that I was never totally able to get AA and their message was because it was too similar to CS. AA believes that you can faith-heal alcoholism and many other addictive ailments. They also believe, wrongly, that once you go "out the side door", you won't have anyone to turn to. We all know of one place where they will always be welcome.

Mark

RE: Hello! My name is Jim and I'm an ex-CS!

IleftCSin74 — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 02:31:40 GMT

Jim: I'm with you 100% of the way. I hear you and know where you've been and where you're coming from.

Mark

RE: Hello! My name is Jim and I'm an ex-CS!

IleftCSin74 — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 02:28:20 GMT

No Jim: Hi, I'm Jim, and I'm a CS religion-addict would be more accurate.

IleftCSin74

Anonymous — Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:43:27 GMT

Hi Jim and all! Wow! I've got to keep in touch with this sight. I'm in a hurry now, but will post my story, too. On top of it all, I have a sister with Down's Syndrom, a cousin that had cerebral palsy, etc.
talk soon!
be free!
Pray for poor Jill Carroll!
Claudia

Linda — Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:45:23 GMT

Thanks for the added verses, Barb. That makes three different places in the Bible where communion is emphasized -- regardless of whether MBE decided that it should be considered a "dead rite."

You're right that any further discussion should go to a different thread, so I'll stop here.

Barb — Mon, 16 Jan 2006 22:48:15 GMT

Hi Linda,

Thanks for causing me to reread my own message. The first gospel passage to mention, "Do this in remembrance of me", appears to be Luke 22. As you pointed out, Paul also refers to it in I Cor. 11.

I edited my last post to include Jesus' comments following his sharing of the cup with his disciples. My point was that drinking this cup is such an important metaphor that Jesus refers to himself, after the crucifixion, partaking of it "new in the kingdom of God." [Mark 14:25] I'm sure this reference is open to much interpretation for another thread!

Linda — Sun, 15 Jan 2006 15:53:18 GMT

Maybe because Jesus, himself, says "Do this in remembrance of me" and immediately states the fact that he will be continuing the practice once he rejoins his Father in heaven!

I think the passage you're referring to, Barb, is 1 Corinthians 11: 23-26. Jesus says that people should "do this in remembrance of me" and then says, "For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes." I don't remember Jesus specifically saying that He would be taking communion in heaven.

In any case, you're right about MBE going against Jesus' directive.

Barb — Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:13:11 GMT

Hi Jan,

It was just last week that I was visiting Mom, so the lesson was on Sacrament. One example of a passage from S&H [p. 33:31 - p.34:9] that jumped out at me actually dismisses the practice of taking communion altogether:

"Why ascribe this inspiration to a dead rite...?...If Christ, Truth, has come to us in demonstration, no other commemoration is requisite...why need we memorials of that friend?"

Maybe because Jesus, himself, says "Do this in remembrance of me." [Luke 22:19] and in a parallel passage, also describing Jesus' last Passover meal with the disciples, He adds, "I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God." [Mark 14:25] Hence, the powerful symbolism of Jesus partaking of the cup continues even after the crucifixion.

M.B. Eddy makes many valid points on p. 34, however I believe she overlooks the importance of this "ritual" for those sincere Christians who use communion for several reasons, one of which is as a reminder that that they are part of the Body of Christ, and need to maintain a loving fellowship with others therein. Of course, her point is that too many people in the "traditional" churches simply go through the motions, taking communion but not letting it alter their daily behaviour or change the state of their hearts. (I'll admit, she's right on that point). However, to nullify Jesus' direct wish for us to commemorate this crucial event by abolishing a practice that he, himself, engaged in is what I referred to as contrary to scripture.

I realize that this entry should probably have been posted under a separate subject heading, but I was in a hurry! : )

Jan — Fri, 13 Jan 2006 02:31:55 GMT

Barb: your comment
"some passages in S&H (which I took great exception to, pointing out where they contradicted the Bible)"

Can you recall those passages? I would be interested to know.

Thanks
Jan

Barb — Fri, 13 Jan 2006 01:04:11 GMT

Dear Jim,

Thanks so much for joining this forum. It is always good to see yet another searching person share their story. I can seriously relate to your last visit with your mom. Mine is 85, a staunch CSist, and also in failing health, relying only on C.S. "care". I'm only able to see her once or twice a year, so those times are precious. I had to walk away from her door just 2 days ago, not knowing if I'd see her again.

The message I'd most like to convey to you is to try at all costs to make peace with her if there is still a rift there. You may feel that she's not open to that, but you might be surprised how our elderly mom's can soften their hearts later in life, especially if she knows she's nearing the end of it. I think in every mother's heart there's a longing to reconcile differences, it's just that defending C.S. beliefs can harden a person and she may need your gentle touch, even over the phone, to break that rigidity.

It's now been 20 years since I've "left the fold" of C.S. Finally, I'm able to have confidence in sharing the simple love of Christ with my mom, without the fear of causing tension due to our different views. And you know, it's working. Just last week I was able to sit and read the Bible portions of her lesson (as she's still of the belief that "studying" is her only hope of relief from a crippling disease). So I honoured her wishes and joined her in reading those prescribed passages. In her weakened state, and in her own searching heart, Mom was willing to listen to my comments on both the Bible (which I love to read to her) and on some passages in S&H (which I took great exception to, pointing out where they contradicted the Bible). It wasn't always this way. I'm noticing more of an openness in our relationship as she's realizing that C.S. treatment is not working as she's hoped.

Jim, I'm not sure what your spiritual path is at the moment, so forgive me if I don't need even need to say this! I encourage you to seek the simple gospel message, that Christ loves us and longs for us to come to him. Acknowledging all the painful memories, and your anger with what's happened to your family through C.S. is a good beginning. As you're able to let go of some of that load, by putting it in God's hands, I pray that his love will fill your heart towards your mom and that she'll feel it as you reach out to her, in a letter or a phone call.

Thanks so much for sharing what's on your heart.

Barb

Anonymous — Sat, 07 Jan 2006 11:22:12 GMT

I was referring to Broncho's post. Sorry about that.

Temperance

Anonymous — Sat, 07 Jan 2006 11:20:13 GMT

Thanks for this post. Many thoughts swirling around in my mind for many years and you just put a lot of them into words that make so much sense.

Isn't it amazing how we can do that for each other now and then?

Temperance

Jax-Brian — Fri, 06 Jan 2006 19:13:54 GMT

Yes, my brother, it has been a long road that we have traveled. You were the stronger, wiser one for getting out early as you did. I allowed myself to be held in the grasp of CS, and our mother, for far too long. Even though I got out just over 5 years ago I still struggle with the deeply ingrained thoughts that come up occassionally, phrases and words from long ago that I can't forget or shake out of my memories. Sometimes I wonder where we both would be in our christian walk if we had never been exposed to CS. Far better off, I suspect. But then I realize that being brought up in CS, while difficult, confusing, maddening and damaging in some ways, makes us what we are today. And it gives up a reason to find the real "truth", the real christianity that most other christians have know and experienced for most of their lives. Now that we know how bogus all that we were raised with is, don't you really want to set it all straight in your mind, by replacing all the lies and mis-information with the "real thing"? Hopefully the events of the past 4 weeks will be an impetus to you and I to keep looking for our own christianity wherever that journey might takes us. God will bless us in our search. Peace, brother.

Broncho — Fri, 06 Jan 2006 18:43:12 GMT

Dear Jim,
I have a hunch many of us have been rejected in one way or another by our family because we are no longer CS. Years and years ago, my father underwent skin cancer surgery and I was never told a thing about it until after his surgery. My "thought" would have been too disruptive for him to deal with at the time. I genuinely think that it is a totally impersonal thing. They do it out of self defense.

I think the fear some of us have (like me) a quite legitimate fear that if we ruffle the CS feathers we will be swiftly and permanently kicked out of the relationship on our nether regions.

Do you ever wonder if your mother was willing to sacrifice your life on her altar to CS?

This was one of the hardest issues I deal(t) with when coming out of CS. I think we all fear the answer is yes. For years I wondered if my mother really loved me because she was willing to make her children sacrifice so much for CS. I eventually came to feel that she probably couldn't really love anyone the way I wanted her to. Then I finally came to realize that people love the way they love and it is their problem and not a reflection on me. That took a long, long time and more than a few 50 minute hours talking to people who get paid to listen, but it was worth the effort at getting to that space. There are many folks on this web site who have made that journey and are here to support you.

Broncho

dawn comes — Thu, 05 Jan 2006 12:31:49 GMT

Jim, feel free to vent here all you want. Your story is so familiar to most of us. I understand exactly what you mean when you say the guilt was replaced by anger and resentment. I hope your mom comes out of this and you have many more years to spend with her.

Before my mom died ( practitioner who died of cancer which had been present for nearly five years and never treated), she told me "Don't feel guilty if I don't make it. You could never have talked me into getting medical treatment." I hang on to that. Even though I knew it to be true, she helped me by stating it aloud. I think my non-CS father was just racked with guilt over not trying to force her to see a doctor. It is just that through all the years of their marriage, she had never faced anything that was actually life-threatening. She had many health problems that never "yielded", but he had never felt as if he should push it as long as she could live with her own discomforts. However, we all knew that this was the life she had chosen, and if we had tried to push her it would have caused such ill will and still would have been pointless. We still struggled with it for years, but have learned to let it go.

My mother died at home after being in a coma for six days with no one to care for her but her husband and two daughters still in their twenties. Her CS "nurse" had basically abandoned us. I will always think of that long week with those awful cassette tapes of "Science and Health" and MBE hymns playing softly from the table next to her bed as one of the most nightmarish times in my life.

I hope you can find some peace.

frogs25 — Thu, 05 Jan 2006 11:20:36 GMT

Now that I am living on my own and with my stb husband, I no longer call my mother when "the need arose", however, I do call her for prayerful support, as she is a practitioner, but I do not describe to her the details or the situation that needs handling. This is because I know that she can pray on her own terms and thing good thoughts with out her laying on me specific truths from S&H. She is always willing to do this for me, and I can now that she is supporting prayerfully. As she is my step-mother and we don't have the best relationship, I rarely call her anymore for this kind of service. I have become quite confident that Doctors are skilled and know what they are doing. Any prayers, CS or not, are productive and purposeful.

Just wanted to add this

Frogs25

Anonymous — Thu, 05 Jan 2006 11:02:48 GMT

Welcome Jim!

Although I'm 25yrs younger than you, I totally relate to what you have posted. I find it ironic that a majority of people on this forum are older, when to much of my perception I'd imagine the older folk to be stuck to the CS religion like glue. I am so glad that you have come to this forum, as each person that shares contributes greatly to emotional support to all members here. Right now I am kind of in this limbo of speaking various spiritual understandings gained through CS upbringing and trying to figure out the importance of Jesus. I feel right now very disconnected, but yet at the same time, not wanting to do anything church related. This limbo is very strange. Because on one hand, I've got the spiritual background, and I have a friend of mine I am able to share this with, but on the other hand, I feel distant from the whole spiritual thing because I feel like I need to discard the "Mrs. Eddy" spiritualness, and begin learning my own spiritualness. It's hard to explain.

You'll get to know me better as you read my posts, but I look forward to reading yours.

BTW, I've been to an AA meeting because one of my friends is now 2yrs sober, and if you have the opportunity to go to an AA meeting, (which I would have never done if I were still CS) You should go and experience it. The meetings I've been to were helpful to me even though I'm not an alcoholic.

Frogs25

Anonymous — Wed, 04 Jan 2006 19:50:39 GMT

Hi Jim,
Thanks for sharing. It's nice to hear from others with similar issues. I left CS about 6 years ago but my parents are very much still involved and daily read the "lesson" for the week. I can't get over how blinding the religion is. My grandma was placed in a CS nursing facility about a week before Christmas this year. She does not want any visitors but my parents are allowed to see her. I get so mad when I think how preventable her illness could have been. She is not able to walk due to a previous injury and my grandpa could not lift her anymore so they decided the facility would be a good place. I truly hope you are able to see your mom again and I hope I will see my grandma again.

Linda — Tue, 03 Jan 2006 11:34:39 GMT

Welcome to the forum, Jim!

I'm sooooo glad that you got the help you needed with your ruptured appendix, and am sorry that your grandmother and aunt did not survive their attempts at CS healing.

Like Do Go Be Man, I pray that Dec 3, 2005 will not turn out to be a significant day.

Linda

Anonymous — Tue, 03 Jan 2006 11:32:31 GMT

"Mom never visited me in the hospital and never mentioned the insident again."

Jim:

Thank you for posting with us and welcome!!!

I can really identify with the story about your appendix!!! My father, a soloist, had a burst appendix when I was 3. He waited two days before my mother (non CS) finally convinced him to let her call an ambulance. Surgery was the only thing that saved his life. If she hadn't, I would have grown up fatherless. Although I was too young to remember all but my dad being home ill(vaguely), the incident was madening upon reflection ijn later years. My dad almost died, and for what? Too illustrate the "truth" of a belief system that is totally false.

You didn't share with us where you are spiritually at the moment. (and if you prefer not to that's OK). I was just curious if you ended up in another church, etc.

Again, welcome, and thanks for sharing.

John

Do_Go_Be_Man — Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:09:22 GMT

Hi Jim!

Welcome to the forum. Sounds like we're the same generation.

Though Linda doesn't like the title of her book, it is often accurate. I pray that Dec 3, 2005 is not as significant a date as you fear.

Do Go Be Man
<><

Hello! My name is Jim and I'm an ex-CS!

bbqsmith — Mon, 02 Jan 2006 19:59:20 GMT

Never been to an AA meeting but I understand that's how one introduces oneself! I found this forum quite by chance and have been reading posts all afternoon. Figured I may as well tell my story and see what happens.

I was raised in CS but never really ever understood it's teachings. My younger brother and I attended SS every Sunday with our parents attending the "grown-ups" service. We were even taken on Wednesday evenings where we were left in the care of Mrs. Laird at the church nursery! As I got older Mrs Laird still kept an eye on me while I did my homework out in the Sunday school room. I'm 51 years old and still to this day remember those boring two days of the week. Dad, I know now, only went because of Mom who is still a Journal listed practitioner after forty plus years. Dad left the church after he and Mom divorced some twenty years ago and my brother left seven years ago, much to the disappointment of Mom. I, on the other hand being the rebellious teen I was, quit attending church at age 16. However, since CS was all I had ever known, I tended to call on Mom when "the need arose." That came to a dead halt in 1981 when I suffered a ruptured appendix. I remember asking my wife at the time to call Mom. She came over and was sitting on the bed with me "knowing the truth" while I was screaming out in agony. Our neighbor, who worked in a Dr's office, came over to check on me. She took one look at me and called her boss. He told her to get me to the ER immediately and he would meet us there. I agreed to go and will never forget the look on Mom's face. She had dissapointment in her eyes, but did not attempt to stop me. The neighbor took me to the ER where her boss was waiting. He ordered immediate emergency surgery to remove the ruptured appendix. I spent 10 days in ICU recovering from an illness that would have surely killed me had I not received the help I needed when I did. Mom never visited me in the hospital and never mentioned the insident again. That single incident convinced me that CS was not the way to go but talk about a guilt trip I've indured for years!

Though the guilt has subsided over the years, it has been replaced with resentment and anger. At 14 my grandmother "passed away" and I never really knew what killed her until recently. She died of uterus cancer while under CS treatment. She opted for medical treatment towards the end, but it was too late. The same happened to my beloved aunt, Mom's only sister. She died of breast cancer five years ago while under CS treatment. She too opted for medical care much too late. Mom said she didn't have to die and I'm thinking, you know, your absolutely right...she didn't have to and wouldn't have had she received proper care. Now I'm dealing with the possibility I may never see Mom again. She checked herself into a CS nursing facility four weeks ago with a "problem" I have since learned she has had for some time now. Of course, she won't speak to me but does talk with my brother almost daily. However all he can get out of her is that the staff is "taking care of me." We do know she has "let go" her long time friend and practitioner and replaced her with "someone closer to the area." What difference is that supposed to make? She let her go because it isn't working so now Mom is seeking help from another who can't do anymore than the first. I now carry the date of Dec. 3, 2005 as possibly being the last day I saw my mom alive.

I'm glad to see the number of CS members declining. Too bad Mom has to die to further that decline.
Thank you for letting me vent. I'll be back to vent some more as the memories emerge.

Jim