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RE: Newbie—Love, Sex, and the Christian Scientist

Leonarde — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 20:09:03 GMT

Hi Melissa,

I am a current freshman at Principia College in Elsah, IL, which is an institution dedicated to serving the cause of Christian Science. I was raised by two devoted Christian Science parents, but sex was never a taboo subject in my household. In fact, if anyone was suppressing discussion about sex in my household, it was I. I generally found the topic of sex to be too awkward to discuss with family members. My younger brother, however, seemed to talk about sex with my parents fairly frequently when I lived with them.

My beliefs about sex did not largely arise as a result of parental influence. I came to most of my conclusions myself, in contradistinction to my parents' beliefs. I can tell you that as far as I know (that is, in accordance with the outward signs) there is no uniformity of opinion within the Christian Science community about sex. But I feel that I am not exactly qualified to make that judgment. It has been my experience, however, that adult adherents of Christian Science seem to see no problem with sex within the confines of marriage. In fifteen plus years of attending Christian Science branch churches, I don't believe I've ever met a local church member who advocated extramarital sexual relations.

In the third chapter of the Christian Science textbook, Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures by Mary Baker Eddy, there are some tantalizing hints about sexual doctrine (and probably even more in other parts of the book). The way I interpret these statements, they are grossly contradictory, but that all depends on your interpretation. I know people who claim that there are no contradictions in the CS textbook, and their interpretation of it (which is as valid as mine) supports this belief.

For whatever that's worth.

Leonarde

RE: Newbie—Love, Sex, and the Christian Scientist

melissa_g — Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:32:04 GMT

Jesusmyhealer,

It struck me as odd that Ginny would respond, but I said nothing.

However, no one can answer why she posted better than Ginny herself in her article “Love and Sexuality.” She states: “Chastity really means purity and wholeness. The cement of any relationship is the chastity of it, the purity of it. Chastity doesn’t mean stagnation; it means pure unselfishness, loving with your whole heart, because God is Love. I remind myself when dealing with sexual questions in my marriage: ‘I’m here to express Love in this relationship. How can I best do that?’”

I’d say that Ginny is being very unchaste by replying on this discussion group. She must be very insecure about any comments about her talk, why else would she respond? Maybe, she is vying for a higher post in her church and is making sure nobody stops it from happening. Clearly, she's taking a selfish (unchaste) approach. It would have been better if Ginny had "Resist[ed] the devil, and it will flee from you" as she advises in her article in terms of being submissive to her husband's sexual advances.

Ginny goes on to say: “Being chaste isn’t so much about what you shouldn’t be doing, as much as it is about being what you are as God sees you.” I can’t believe God told Ginny to post on this discussion group.

The count is now 4 issues of the Sentinel involving the article and letters in response to the article. I think the article itself was written in a interesting manner but it’s a totally different message than what she gives her talk on. Maybe that's why the church printed the article, because they are aware of this discrepancy. However, this is very misleading! I don’t know why a church would allow this to happen. The letters in reponse to her article indicate a lot of confusion regarding “What is Spirituality?” and “What is Sexuality?” and how the two can be interlinked. They may even be misunderstanding that sexuality and sensuality need not be the same thing. I think her supporters who responded are as confused as Ginny still seems to be. I really wonder whether, even as a married woman, Ginny likes and enjoys sex, or as she puts it “having love.” And, I don’t think this is a Christian Science issue. Ginny, apparently, did not have any moral or religious upbringing, and started her licentious life at a very early age. I think her early relationships with men including her father have impacted her ability to be intimate with her husband and respect his physical and emotional needs. (My impression from the article is that she's using her holiness as a smokescreen to dealing with these issues. Others in Christian Science and others on some spiritual or religious path with relationship issues may be doing this as well.) It would be interesting to have someone who specializes in sexual issues read the article and comment on the article, if they can understand it.

I'm still interested in hearing what others have experienced. I don't think religion should be used as a barrier to proper sexual communication in relationships.

Melissa!

RE: Newbie—Love, Sex, and the Christian Scientist

Linda — Fri, 27 Jul 2007 04:45:24 GMT

jesusmyhealer,

We have a variety of people visiting the fourms, including some dedicatd Christian Scientists. It doesn't surprise me that a CSist would let a lecturer know if he or she came up in conversation.

We try hard to keep our discussions respectful of everyone who comes here, even if we disagree with them. Please keep that in mind. :)

RE: Newbie—Love, Sex, and the Christian Scientist

jesusmyhealer — Fri, 27 Jul 2007 04:03:46 GMT

Are you serious?

Sorry I am a newbie to this forum and therefore a little ignorant.

But are you serious that the CS lecturer received a copy of Melissa's thread and sent a post back?

Sorry but I find that weird.

And who's the person in this forum passing on the messages, the dobber? I find that hilarious.

Oh well now that I know current CSist read this forum I might have to add a little flavour to my threads hehehehehehe!!!!!!

RE: Newbie—Love, Sex, and the Christian Scientist

melissa_g — Fri, 20 Jul 2007 06:31:47 GMT

Hi, This is Melissa!

Thanks to all who responded to my inquiry!

I've been able to read a few more issues of the Sentinel magazine since it published that issue on Love and Sexuality. It appears that the Luedemann article has been a source of controversy and debate. An anonymous emailer pointed out the Luedemann statement “I don't think premarital sex is a bad thing—if it is done with love instead of lust, with a mutual respect for the other person and an understanding of it being a physical expression of an emotional bond. I would love to know how other people feel about this topic.” The emailer says the Christian Science standard is that sex outside of marriage is not right. As someone who is not a Christian nor a Christian Scientist I have no problems accepting this standard nor does it offend me.

What would be helpful is to have teens and young adults who have achieved some measure of success in their lives and who have abstained from sex as proponents or speakers on sexuality versus someone in their sixties who did not abstain when younger and hasn't secularly achieved any measurable success in her life. (Just because Luedemann sang for a short time in her early youth with a number of rock artists, I don't see any prospect of her being inducted into the Rock'n Roll Hall of Fame. GinnyL, I'm not picking on you, I'm just using you as an example. So, don't get offended.)

Now, one example of a youthful abstinence speaker who I find really awesome is a virgin Christian man who appeared on the television show “The Bachelor.” The point of this show is for a single man to date a number of attractive eligible females trying to find the perfect match. I don't know his name, but he's still single, incredibly good-looking and has managed to retain his virginity. This approach would make me consider there's a better way than just having premarital sex but I don't think you can find many of these kinds of people in the Christian world, and if the Luedemann's perspective is correct, neither in the Christian Science world.

Many people who are “preaching” abstinence never abstained before they got married. So, it's kind of hard to take them seriously when it comes to talking to younger people. (I find them quite laughable.) In the case of Luedemann, if she sayings it's all right to have premarital sex, then it should also be followed by a strong message to use proper birth control methods and get the necessary sex education training. From the great responses of the ex-Christian Scientists who have posted, it seems it would be good if the Christian Science church gives useful information on being in a marriage relationship. The teenage daughter of the family I'm staying with says a lot of Christian Scientists get divorced.

By the way, the original Sentinel issues I cited gave some websites to look at--spirituality.com and tmcyouth.com. On their tmcyouth.com website one of the topics discussed was birth control. Recommendations included the rhythm method, condoms, and vasectomies.

Just my 2 cents,

Melissa

RE: Newbie—Love, Sex, and the Christian Scientist

Lia — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 12:30:11 GMT

[quote]I'm wondering how others who were raised as Christian Scientists were told about sex and handled sex related issues in their Christian Science homes and churches.[/quote]

Hi fellow grad student! I haven't posted in a while because I've been overseas. I was not raised as a Christian Scientist, but I am marrying into a CS family. My fiance and his siblings attended public school but were never allowed to participate in health or sex education classes. Their parents never talked about sex except to tell them not to do it before marriage. My fiance is a curious-minded person (and not CS anymore) so he basically learned about puberty and sex from biology textbooks. His siblings (currently attending Principia) do not know how sex works (what goes where) or other sex-/puberty-related issues, such as how a woman's menstrual cycle works. They were very sheltered growing up.

RE: Newbie—Love, Sex, and the Christian Scientist

Gentle Dove — Mon, 16 Jul 2007 07:25:56 GMT

Hi Melissa!

In my house growing up, the topic was pretty much taboo. The most ridiculously confusing thing for me was when I got married, I had to struggle with whether I should go on the pill or not! A practitioner couldn't give me an answer, but at that time, you had to agree not to take medicine to join the church! Just another glaring inconsistency with the religion as well as the philosphy being stuck in a time warp!

RE: Newbie—Love, Sex, and the Christian Scientist

Do_Go_Be_Man — Mon, 16 Jul 2007 07:13:23 GMT

Melissa,

Welcome! Glad you found us.

[quote]I'm wondering how others who were raised as Christian Scientists were told about sex and handled sex related issues in their Christian Science homes and churches.[/quote]

Basically, sex was a taboo subject in the CS circles in which I grew up.

Two incidents stick out in my mind in response to your question:

[li]A talk by a CS practitioner at a youth conference with a similar title to the one you attended promising straight talk about sex.[/li]

[li]A discussion with another CS practitioner who is currently a CS teacher and leader of the church.[/li]

The straight talk about sex at the youth conference consisted mostly of warnings of abstinence, but nothing about from what we were to abstain. I now also believe in abstinence outside of marriage, but the most practical advice offered was to always keep the width of a S&H (the CS text book) between members of the opposite sex even when dancing. Sorry, there was another piece of advice - keep a Bible clamped between your knees. I would have very much preferred to have heard a CS perspective on the birds and the bees such as how far was too far to go and what role did sex play in marriage. From my perspective at the time, a talk based on the Song of Solomon and the Marriage chapter of S&H would have been useful and interesting. My first marriage suffered greatly and ultimately ended because of the CS perspectives on sex.

A few years later I recalled that conference while speaking with friends including the current CS teacher. I suggested that a Sentinel article which realistically dealt with sexual issues would be something of value to young CSists. Her reaction indicated just how wholly inappropriate she considered the subject. She said such discussions were only appropriate between spouses and not for publication. I didn't press her on how spouses were to have anything to discuss, but I believe that was the last conversation of any depth I had with her.

Among the youth I grew up with in CS, several developed sexual disfunctions including homosexuality and prostititution. One girl who had been at least a third-generation CSist posed for two diffferent "men's" magazines. I later became aware of cases of child abuse. Of my close peers growing up, most are no longer in CS. Some are dead.

Do Go Be Man
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Newbie—Love, Sex, and the Christian Scientist

melissa_g — Mon, 16 Jul 2007 06:35:07 GMT

Hi,

My name is Melissa. I am a graduate student from the midwest. I am spending the spring and summer as an intern for a think tank in the Nation's Capital. Fortunately, a local family has been willing to host my stay so I didn't have to live alone or share an apartment. This family consists of Christian Scientists. I didn't know this until I came to live with them. The husband also works at the think tank with me. I know very little about the beliefs of this religion. I am not a Christian nor do I have any formal religious training.

Recently, their teenage daughter asked me to come to a talk entitled “The Straight Talk on Love and Sexuality” at a local Christian Scientist church. The speaker was a woman called Ginny Luedemann.This woman formerly sang with rock music artists like Janis Joplin, Jimmy Hendrix, and the Rolling Stones, or so she says. She is probably in her sixties now. She went to excruciating depths to tell us how she got pregnant when just a teenager, abuse she suffered from her alcoholic father, running away from home to become a rock singer, cohabitating with a boyfriend who grew up in Christian Science, her drug overdose experiences, and on, and on, and on. She would continually “diss” her alcoholic father. I got nothing from the talk, but the daughter and her mother (who also accompanied us) thought it was fantastic! They kept on talking about spiritual ideas which they said this speaker expressed. After the talk when we arrived at their home the teenage daughter showed me an issue of a magazine called the “Sentinel” which was also on the subject of the talk. Again, I got nothing from it. Alcoholism, drug abuse, illegitimate pregnancies, and dropping out of high school are nothing new to the secular world. I felt very sorry for this speaker. I think she could better serve her time getting a GED and a college degree on these issues. I''ll be leaving the family within a couple of weeks to return to grad school. I'm wondering how others who were raised as Christian Scientists were told about sex and handled sex related issues in their Christian Science homes and churches.

Thanks,

Melissa