The Christian Way Forums / The Christian Way Forums / Recovery and Health Issues

Are There Actually ANY Healings In Christian Science

HonestJohn — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 04:29:58 GMT

Hi during my time with the CS church I did Not see One healing.

Is this typical?

HonestJohn

When health becomes an obsession

Grace — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 05:20:22 GMT

Hi Everyone,

I'm looking for advice from Christians who have left Christian Science or those who know someone who has. I've been away from Christian Science several years now and believe that I have been able to come to a much better relationship with Jesus Christ. I am, however, still a work in progress, and am struggling with something just now that I think you may be able to help with.

How do you trust Jesus Christ with your health? I feel silly asking the question, yet it is something deep inside that I struggle with. I can trust him with many other things, but yet I struggle here. I used to struggle trusting doctors with my and my loved ones' health, and now I no longer do that.

But now I've gone to the opposite extreme. I seek help through medications, vitamins, and am constantly reading to see how to improve my own and my families' health. I have come to realize that I really do have a problem here and find myself having to admit that it is a sin I need to deal with. It actually interferes with my ability to be close to God. I'm a confessing health-aholic.

My husband had a recent scare in dealing with cancer and it brought me to the point of a panic attack. (Which I must say was not being very supportive of him through his recovery.)

As I'm writing this, I wonder if I've put it under the wrong thread and actually need help through prayer, but I don't know how to change threads at this point.

PLEASE no advice from Christian Scientists saying that I need to get back to Christian Science or atheists saying that I shouldn't be trusting God. That is most definitely NOT my intent in starting this thread. I am seeking to increase my faith in Jesus Christ.

Grace

Coming To Jesus As A Child

Swingdancer — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 07:46:39 GMT

I was talking with my personal CS the other day about a post I read titled "Where is God"? I was surprised as I read a response to this person that included another person refering to Christ as "it". This same person was quoting John chapter 1 and the fact that the Word was in God and was God. When I read this to my CS and then read through vs 14 where "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us" I asked one simple question. Who is the Word? My CS was not ineterested in answering the question, I'm guessing because the answer would be in direct conflict with the teachings in S&H.

My nine year old grandaughter happened to have walked in while I was reading from the Bible and excitedly said "I know the answer". And she did know, she said Grandpa "Jesus is the Word and He is God". When the Bible was written it trully was for God's childern, people such as myself and children as a whole. Children understand that if God is real and the Bible is His word then what it says must be true there is no doubt. I think if we could learn to embrace the Bible on that level we might be better representatives of His teachings.

May God Bless All

Swingdancer

Meditations and Spiritual Nuggets

followingHim — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:10:44 GMT

A visiting missionary was exegeting this familiar text in church tonight:

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus (Phil. 2.5), and shared this pithy wisdom:

Let the mind of the Master be the master of your mind!

Children in Christian Science: The Perils of Perfection

Linda — Thu, 29 May 2008 21:44:35 GMT

Several threads have touched on the emotional difficultites that many Christian Science children experience, so I thought it might be helpful to start a thread dedicated to how Christian Science affects children. Several years ago I gave an hour-long talk entitled Children in Christian Science: The Perils of Perfection. I'll post an excerpt below:

Christian Science children must live with a belief system that tells them that their bodies, and the world around them, are not real. This is an abstract concept, difficult for a child to understand. It can produce both guilt and confusion in a child who feels pain but must deny it and who must learn to reinterpret events that seem very real.

Janet describes her confusion:

“I was sitting in a Sunday School class at a table by the window. I remember my teacher saying that the table we were sitting at was unreal and only an illusion. So was the tree outside the window. I remember thinking that they look pretty real to me, but that I better not tell anyone what I was thinking or they would think I was spiritually inferior.”[i]

In her book, Blue Windows: A Christian Science Childhood, Barbara Wilson also comments on the denial of reality that Janet described, and she brings up an interesting irony:

“But I did know, without understanding, that you had to have a thing in front of you to realize that it was not really a thing. You had to see a bird to know it wasn’t there.”[ii]

Christian Science teaches that the bird will seem real as long as we believe in a material world. Most children recognize that they haven’t overcome their belief in matter, so they sit at their non-existent tables and climb those trees that, in God’s true creation, are merely an illusion. But a lot of them experience the confusion that Janet and Barbara described. Somewhere, deep inside, there’s a conflict that they may or may not recognize – and would probably deny – if you mentioned it. It’s difficult to embrace your humanity, or yourself, when you can’t accept that you have a body. I experienced that conflict. I would have laughed at the suggestion of an internal struggle if you had mentioned it to me while I was in Christian Science. But my conflict became clear after I left the group and, with great effort, I had to give myself permission to have a body.

As I said before, Christian Science children often feel guilty when they are sick or injured. These feelings are spawned not only by Christian Science doctrine, but also, frequently, by well-meaning caregivers. Some children are scolded and even punished for becoming ill or for not being able to heal themselves. Others are left alone and frightened while their parents go into another room to pray. Some are given the option of medical care, but with guilt or fear attached.

· Carolyn went through a series of severe ear infections at the age of seven. As she sat on her mother’s lap and cried in pain, her mother told her that earaches were “not real, because god didn’t make them.” Carolyn was treated by a Christian Science practitioner rather than with antibiotics – and went deaf. Then her mother told her, “If you would be more loving, you could hear.” Carolyn later said, “That made me feel like I was the worst, most evil person in the world because no matter how hard I tried to ‘be loving,’ good, and nice, I couldn’t hear.”[iii]

· Beth put her hand through a glass door and cut it to the bone, leaving her fourth finger hanging backwards. Her mother, a Christian Science practitioner, blamed the accident on Beth’s “evil thoughts.” She told Beth to raise the bleeding hand above her head and commanded her not to faint. After driving an hour toward home, Beth’s mother stopped at a pay phone and spent another thirty minutes consulting with a practitioner friend. Beth sat in the car as the women talked – alone, bleeding, frightened, and in pain. Beth’s mother finally decided to have a doctor bandage the hand in a cupped position to stop the bleeding. There were no stitches or painkillers. She then became angry when Beth needed help getting dressed because of the bandage.[iv]

· In her article, “Suffering Children and the Christian Science Church,” Caroline Fraser describes her difficulties with repeated carsickness as a young child. She would desperately try to heal herself but would invariably throw up anyway – at which point her father would yell, “you’re going to have to learn not to do that!”[v]

· One little girl was dying of untreated throat cancer and couldn’t swallow properly because of the lump in her throat. Her mother forced her to eat anyway and punished her for throwing up.

· Lisa’s family refused to acknowledge that she was dying of cystic fibrosis. She was never given the emotional support that any human being would need under the circumstances. A few days before her death she was still being propped up at the dinner table, semi-conscious, so that her family could eat together.

· Mary stepped on a needle that broke off and left a one-inch segment in her foot. Her mother offered to have it removed by a doctor but made the offer with the frightening statement, “We can take you to the doctor and he’ll take a knife and cut it out, or we can ‘know the Truth’ about it.” Mary had never heard of anesthetics and imagined a wild man slicing into her foot, so she opted for knowing the Truth. She continues, “So for a week or two I limped around…while the needle worked its way from near my toes to eventually come out at the heel. I was called to the phone every day or so to talk to a practitioner who assured me that there was no reality to the situation....”

The cases I have discussed bring up a serious issue that undermines the self-confidence and emotional health of many Christian Science children – the need for validation. The gut-level desire for one’s emotions, senses, and needs to be taken seriously. Just watch a group of young children on a playground if you want to understand the importance of validation. When children hurt themselves, they run to their parents to have the pain acknowledged. Often a child simply shows the bump to her mother, receives a kiss and some loving words regarding the injury, and then happily returns to her game. The love and kiss cannot heal the bump, but they are so important to the child that she will often cry and act hurt until she receives them. This desire to have pain acknowledged is almost universal among children and adults. Christian Scientists deprive themselves and their children of this basic human need because they cannot admit that pain is real. I have discussed the validation issue with a number of people who grew up in Christian Science and have seen many of them reduced to tears as they think about their own experience.

Children can suffer emotional neglect even if they don’t go through blatantly abusive situations like the ones I have just described. My parents were very open to discussing my problems, and I knew that they loved me unconditionally. But whenever we would discuss a physical problem I was having, my father would end the conversation with “but we know that this is no part of you.” (In other words, we know that the “real you” isn’t having a problem.) With that well-meaning statement, any gut level validation I had received would vanish. It took me years to figure out why, deep down inside, I felt so horribly alone.

Aside from their own pain, Christian Science children must often endure the prolonged suffering of loved ones without having any means of expressing or understanding their emotions. They know that illness is “wrong.” They cannot ask questions about it lest they make it harder to heal, so are left with no good way to deal with their fears. People often die without explanation, and children are left with lingering questions about what happened. And when their loved ones die, they don’t know how – or are often not allowed – to grieve.

Suzanne recalls how her grandfather was kept on a cot in the basement when he developed open, rotting sores – one of which ate a hole through his cheek so that she could see his teeth, tongue, and jaw. He died when she was eight years old, but she was not allowed to grieve.[vi]

Despite the confusion, guilt, and poor validation, Christian Science children often lead happy lives because their religion teaches them to be optimistic and to see themselves as spiritually perfect, religiously superior, and able to overcome life’s “seeming” trials. They are taught to live simultaneously in two realities; they play, eat, and experience the ups and downs of life in the physical illusion around them while metaphysically filtering out the unpleasant aspects of their lives. In other words, they learn to live with selective denial and to consciously internalize only the good in life. That works to a point, but Christian Scientists often grow up with insecurities and emotional scars that could have been avoided by acknowledging and dealing with life’s problems as they arose instead of brushing them under the metaphysical rug. Some people struggle with the scars for a lifetime without understanding their origin. Others never recognize the damage, but it leaks out in the form of insecurity, a general lack of empathy, and emotional difficulties such as misplaced anger. I’ve seen this in many people – including the ones who swear that Christian Science didn’t harm them.

In my case, I led a happy childhood and then experienced tremendous emotional fallout after leaving Christian Science and beginning to examine my past without any metaphysical filters. I had to sort through a lifetime of confused and angry emotions, dealing with events ranging from minor inconveniences to major traumas. I was truly surprised at the intensity of my anger over certain events, and am convinced that they would have been less traumatic if I had been allowed to deal with them as they happened, instead of years later and with a mass of other memories.

[i] Linda S. Kramer, The Religion That Kills – Christian Science: Abuse, Neglect, and Mind Control (Lafayette, LA: Huntington House Publishers, 2000), 153.

[ii] Barbara Wilson, Blue Windows: A Christian Science Childhood (New York: Picador USA, 1997), 72.

[iii] Caroline Fraser, God’s Perfect Child, 320-1.

[iv] Linda S. Kramer, The Religion That Kills, 156-7.

[v] Caroline Fraser, “Suffering Children and the Christian Science Church,” The Atlantic Monthly (April 1995).

[vi] Linda S. Kramer, The Religion That Kills, 157-8.

Attitudes and Impact re. Sickness and Wellness in Society and CS

Rosebud3 — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 13:38:03 GMT

Hi,

I have been reading a lot about people in CS who felt guilty when they were sick, suffered for unnecessary reasons and my heart goes out to them. As I have posted before I have extended family members in CS and have lost someone very dear to me that I believe could easily still be alive today.

I am opening this topic because I think sickness and the impact it has on the ill and on those around them really does link into this. I am an RN, as I have said, and have also had a long term disabling condition. At times I can not work. People are very disappointed in me, employers, family etc. A lot of it has to do with values we have in our culture of productivity and survival of the economy. Therefore, for many of us, including myself, a lot of guilt comes with illness. Back in the biblical time people thought a person was sick perhaps because of their sin or a parent's sin.

Doesn't a lot of this have to do with economy? I wanted to try CS and have fortunately had a kind practitioner who responds to me quickly and helps me to feel more positive when I feel disgusted with myself or feel devalued and abused by others. I hoped for radical healing so I would never be a burden again. Think of MBE's time period and the economics in her situation. It was horrible and when she was in poverty, had lost Quimby and slipped she came up with her revelation and then essentially developed a huge and dynamic support system for herself and perhaps, she hoped,for others.

People who are ill are often considered a drain, a cost to the economy, and now with health insurance as it is we face incredible challenges. Does anyone know how difficult it is to get SSD even when you truly qualify for it, even if you'd rather be working? And that is a system that was designed as insurance for a person who has a legal disability. I payed in to that and am on a 2 year waiting list and I still want to work. Sickness seems to equal lack of value and productivity in our culture, so to find some ultimate answer would solve and make safe humanity's well being. Just thought this was an interesting train of thought and would be so grateful to hear from others.

Ex-Cult Therapy

Gentle Dove — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 19:39:30 GMT

I saw a cult expert interviewed on Larry King regarding the polygamist group in the news recently. I checked out the website and it looked like a useful resource for someone possibly needing help dealing with their experiences in the Christian Science Church. The article even discusses the lack of information regular therapists have about these groups and that the patient has to spend most of their time educating the therapist on the belief system. There are several options to seek therapy. Two of them involve get this... going to Boston and one is where they will come to you. I don't have any other information other than what is listed on the website. I just thought it may be a helpful resource for anyone who wanted to look into it. The rest of the site is pretty interesting too. If anyone knows anymore about Freedom of Mind I would be interested to know about it.

Here is the site: http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/help/onesself/

Why do people stay in CS after becoming dissatisfied?

Linda — Tue, 04 Sep 2007 13:56:11 GMT

The thread topic is a paraphrase of a question posed on the "Scandal at Principia" thread (see [url=http://www.christianway.org/forums/Topic13162-16-5.aspx]posts 13895 and 13898, 9-3-07)[/url].

The anonymous poster also asked the following question in response to my answer (post 13896):

[quote]6. Also, what exactly do you mean when you say you "reject" CS? Why don't you just say you don't believe in CS? As someone unfamiliar with the subject, I would have thought that saying, "I rejected Catholicism 10 years ago" means I don't believe it anymore. Do believers in the Christian Way continue to reject CS? If so, how is that?
[/quote]

I'm moving these questions out of the "Scandal..." thread since they do't fit into that topic.

Mary Baker Eddy's thoughts about Christian Science nursing facilities

tmcl — Sun, 23 Jul 2006 03:26:01 GMT

Sometimes people here have mentioned Christian Science nursing facilities. They are not mentioned by Mrs. Eddy in the Church Manual, although she does have a by-law in the Manual providing for Christian Science nurses. I have sometimes heard people wonder about the basis for having Christian Science nursing facilities, since they are not mentioned in the Manual. Some time ago, I was interested in finding out more about this and went to the MBE Library to see what background I could find about these facitilites, and get copies of relevant documents.

I found that Mrs. Eddy had a desire to see these institutions established, but that the fulfillment of that desire did not come about during her lifetime. In January 1906 Mrs. Eddy wrote a couple of letters to a Christian Scientist in which she shared her vision for CS nursing facilities. Then in 1909, Mrs. Eddy asked the CS Board of Directors to put a by-law into the Manual establishing a CS nursing facility. The Board replied that they did not feel that The Mother Church was in a position at that time to undertake the project, so Mrs. Eddy said not to put the by-law in the Manual and that she was willing to "let this matter rest for the present."

I thought those here might be interested in Mrs. Eddy's statements as to what she envisioned for CS nursing facilities:

From letter of January 11, 1906:

"...hospitals, alias, homes for the sick where skillful surgeons, and good nurses, and Christian Science healers are ready to receive the needy."

From letter of January 15, 1906:

"...that it [the facility] be for teaching Surgery, training nurses, teaching cooking, and healing the sick. Also that it be a resort for invalids without homes or relatives available in time of need..."

Examples of Personal Healing in the Bible

Do_Go_Be_Man — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:06:40 GMT

The Bible provides many examples of healing. Can anyone provide examples of personal healings documented in the Bible? For example, did any of the Apostles ever heal themselves? Did the Apostles radically rely upon spiritual healing for their personal needs? Did the Apostles teach radical reliance?

Do Go Be Man
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Anger & sadness

polarbear — Fri, 20 May 2005 15:11:09 GMT

Hi, this is my first time posting so forgive me if I don't do it right! I was a CSt for 25 years, didn't practice any faith for a few years, and accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior 25 years ago. Even though I've been out of CS for many years, I'm just now understanding the emotional damage I suffered because of it. A few days ago I took a letter written by my CS aunt to my therapist and read it to her. She said "This explains a whole lot about the issues you're working on." I found this website and was so amazed at how much I identified with some of the posts I've read. Right now I'm feeling angry and sad at the losses in my life caused by CS: my mom's death from untreated high blood pressure when I was 9, my brother's suicide because his emotional problems were ignored when I was 11, not to mention the lack of recognition of my feelings, hurts, and illness and my blaming myself for EVERYTHING! For the past 2 days I've pretty much been crying all day. I hope some of you who identify with this can help me. Thank you!

polarbear

Fear of God

Grace — Fri, 01 Dec 2006 18:02:10 GMT

Hi Everyone,

Since I've been reading and posting on here (a few years now), I've noticed that a lot of people who post and have recently left Christian Science are very clear on the idea that they want nothing to do with God. Not just nothing to do with religion, but God as well. I've been thinking about that lately, and have remembered that I was the same way myself.

For me, it was a sense of being afraid of God. For lots of reasons -- fear that He would turn me away because I was no longer a Christian Scientist, for one. Another was that I was afraid that God didn't really exist and that I was foolish to even believe that He did. I was also afraid that I may have been praying wrong all along. The deepest and most painful fear was that God was not Love, as I had learned Him to be in CS, but that he was also prone to be angry, hold grudges against us, might send me to hell for all sorts of reasons.

Did anyone else experience such feelings or am I way off base? Also, does anyone have any ideas on how to help someone with such fears before they spend so much time trying to make it on their own, without God. I've never been one to try and convince someone of God -- but at the same time, I don't want to miss an opportunity to really help someone turn to Him when He wants so much for them to know His love as it really is.

Actually, now that I think of it, maybe for some it's not so much fear of God as it is anger at Him. But, even in that case, the anger can only be dealt with by having a relationship with God rather than turning away from His existence, right?

Anyways, just wondering if anyone had any thoughts. Thanks!

Grace

Talking with Dr. Phil?

ri_olson — Thu, 09 Jun 2005 15:14:36 GMT

I was thinking about writing to the Dr. Phil show and presenting the damage that CS has done to people. I have experienced the damage, my sister has, my friends and family. This cult needs to get exposed as well I need to get some help. Has anyone given this some thought or tried it? What do you think of this idea. I don't know if it would get very far, but I am thinking seriously about trying.

ri

Falsifying records

Anonymous — Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:38:32 GMT

Hello -- not sure I have seen anything like this before. I just went through an old box of family information, and came across my grandmother's death certificate. Someone, almost certainly my mother, had whited out a portion of it where it listed an underlying cause of death. I sent for the original, and low and behold, my grandmother had died of breast cancer. No one had ever said a word to me about it, and I'd always had the idea we had nothing like this in my family. Now I am sending for the originals of all my CS relatives who have died, to ensure something else isn't hidden.
My question is -- why would a CS do that? Both my grandmother and mother were devout CS. Would they do it so that others in their family (my sister and I, for instance), wouldn't believe the false heriditary claim of breast cancer, and therefore automatically develop it ourselves? Could someone with a background in CS please try to explain? Thanks.
Siobhan

Counseling for Ex Christian Scientist

li'l sister — Sun, 29 Apr 2007 20:38:05 GMT

Hi,

This is my first time to post anything, but I have checked out the website many times. I think it's really great, so thanks for starting it!

I have been out of Christian Science for about 4 or 5 years. I grew up in it and still have a lot of issues about many different things. I would really like to see a counselor to start working through some things, but I am nervous about finding the right person to go to who has some knowledge about how cults like this work. Any suggestions?

I have read Linda's book which is wonderful and I have been to Wellspring which was incredibly helpful, but now I feel like I need something more local and long term.

I would appreciate any help.

Thanks :)

li'l sister

The Pain of Denial

in the light — Tue, 23 Jan 2007 07:42:38 GMT

Hi everyone. I haven't posted for a while now, but have enjoyed continuing reading other posts. Currently I am feeling the intense emotional pain of denial that shaped my childhood - the constant battle between the reality of my feelings and experience and the need to hide, deny and pretend that bad things didn't exist. It is like I knew this on an intellectual level before, but now am coming in touch with the intensity of the emotional pain that I experienced as a child in trying to do this - mostly very successfully by burying myself in academic achievement. Feelings of confusion, shatteredness, unreality, anxiety, aloneness, sadness, and deep emotional pain are beginning to surface - connected to constantly having to deny any reality which suggested illness, imperfection or indeed anything "not nice". I am finding this quite difficult - especially a fear of letting go of a hypervigilance against negativity that I have lived with for years, even though I know I don't believe in or need this hypervigilance anymore. Does any of this sound familiar? I would appreciate some support right now.

in the light.

recovery

Anonymous — Mon, 07 Aug 2006 13:40:02 GMT

i broke out into tears when i found this website. i was a christian
scientist from age 6-20. i am 28 years old now, and i am still trying
to deal with the damage that christian science has caused. i am left
confused and resentful, and sometimes guilty. i feel like my
consciousness is polarized. i have no sense of certainty. when
children are raised without a sense of reality (good and bad) they are
left without a framework of beliefs to deal with the ups and downs of
life. i have suffered through many serious illness.
i know first hand how horrible it feels to be in painful agony and
have my mother put me on the phone with a practitioner and have her
tell me that my pain is an illusion and that 'error' is unreal, and
that i am perfect, that disease is caused by fear or doubt. no
validation whatsoever. how does a 10 year old deserve this, when i just needed a simple operation?
If one is a questioning individual, (which i am) this type of
brainwashing causes long term ramifications on many different levels.
i could go on and on, but i won't. thank you for making me feel not so alone.
-kim

Rejected by CS parent - how to cope?

saudade — Sat, 02 Dec 2006 16:41:38 GMT

Hello all -

This is an issue I'm trying to deal with right now. I am attempting to find a good therapist to help me work out these issues, but in the meantime I'd like some feedback.

You can see my full story in the "new to forum" post, but in a nutshell, my mother has recently told me she can't have any contact with me anymore because of my "toxic attitude towards Christian Science". She has been working on a health problem (some mysterious and, of course, undiagnosed ailment, probably having to do with her kidneys, that has been plaguing her for years) and feels having contact with me would jeopardize her health. One thing you should know is I've never spoken a word to her about my lack of faith in CS other than "I just don't believe in it anymore" - I haven't tried to coax her out of it, argue doctrine, etc. Just after about seven years of hiding it, I was finally forced to tell her that I'd had this major shift in my thinking. Immediately after this she shut me out.

The pain of this is almost unbearable at times. This is what I will need therapy for. I just feel so hurt and alone, since my family is very small and she's almost all I've got. I sort of feel like I've lost everything, or that she died. And the worst thing is that this isn't normal mother/daughter stuff that everyone can relate to - I can't really explain to my friends what happened, since CS is so shrouded in mystery to the outside world. It's not like we had other problems that were just exacerbated by this issue - outside of CS we always had a great relationship. But deep down I knew that the minute I challenged her in the slightest about CS that she would turn on me. I have been dreading this moment for years. Sometimes I wish I'd just kept my mouth shut, but I knew I couldn't anymore. The truth will out, as they say.

The worst part is I have to accept that she may die because of this belief. She told me once that she's been at death's door many times with this illness. I can't even imagine the maelstrom of emotions I would feel if, while still estranged, she does die of this disease, left untreated. It's such a waste.

I'm just wondering if others have had this experience and how you coped. Thanks.

Hilary

When you first left CS...

Anonymous — Sun, 16 Feb 2003 20:35:43 GMT

Were you afraid of something terrible happening? Of having a car wreck? Sickness? Or other tragedy? And did anything happen?

What about all the guilt and burden of "being responsible for your own thoughts." How did you deal with that?

Thanks.

Embracing our Humanity

in the light — Thu, 12 Oct 2006 17:45:55 GMT

On reflecting on some of the posts on this forum, it struck me that a common theme for those affected by and recovering from an involvement in CS is the difficulty of moving from a position of "I am perfect" to acknowledging the reality of sin - in effect, our humanity. This is a concept which I resonate with very closely - I think that only those affected by CS and then moving to a true Christian faith can really understand the conflict and dilemma the complete change of mindset involved. I struggled for many years after I became a Christian in that I found it relatively easy to experience the love of God, but very difficult to acknowledge in a deeper emotional sense the reality of sin. I remember at my adult baptism saying the words "I repent of my sins" and assenting to this intellectually - but at the same time saying to God "I don't understand this, but I repent of my sins anyway". I then spent several years in an evangelical framework always feeling guilty and conflicted - all my friends "got" the sin bit, But I was always too frightened of it, part of me still thinking and believing that if I acknowledged sin before God that the act of doing so would in itself be wrong and that I would be rejected by Him. Of course my evangelical friends (and clergy) with no CS baggage could not relate to this - so it was a burden I carried silently for many years.

In recent times I have found a more sacramental expression of my faith to be where I am at in my spiritual journey, and have found tremendous solace and comfort in the sacrament of confession/reconciliation which is offered by my Anglican ( Episcopalian) tradition. It is a joy to be able to finally deeply acknowledge "I am sinful and human " before God, and then receive forgiveness and absolution. I now know that one of the most precious things about being an authentic Christian is that it enables me to really say "I am sinful, and it is OK", because I know the grace of forgiveness, and Christ's acceptance of my humanity.

The legacy of CS has been a long struggle for me - because the false assumptions became so deeply rooted. Coming to a position of understanding, in considerable part to the posts on this wonderful forum of people with similar conflicts and struggles, is truly the grace of God in my life. Thank you.

in the light

A Healthy Outcome of That Which Would Have Been Another CS Crisis

Freeman — Sat, 22 Jul 2006 22:01:37 GMT

Hello all,

I have just returned home from a hospital, where I had my appendix removed. As with most other people, I could have done without the whole incident.

I suppose I need very little to say what a problem, or crisis, it would have been if I had still been in CS!! Yes, the dutiful CS practitioner would have "known the truth" about it, or perhaps blamed it on a shortcoming of attitude. Of course during that period of time, I would have been in anguish. It is hard to say what would have been the social as well as medical outcome of this situation. I might have insisted on going to a hospital, and that would have been most upsetting to my CS relatives. On the other hand, I simply could have surrendered to CS and to the most likely outcome. I think in these circumstances, being just another CS fellow who passed away well before his time, and with great discomfort, would have been the result.

It's quite liberating to simply say, "I think I'll go to the hospital and have this discomfort checked out by the doctor." That takes a lot of pressure and anxiety off the patient. You simply relax and let the highly educated and trained experts do all the work.

There is nothing like real life experience to prove what you are doing is correct and appropriate.

warm wishes to all, especially since it was 110 degrees today

Freeman

Doubts

dew06rk — Tue, 26 Sep 2006 17:55:04 GMT

It has been awhile since I have visited the site, but I found comfort last time, as well as a source of strength, so here I am again.
Lately, the past few weeks or so, I have had nagging doubts about whether or not I am in the right path. Let me refresh those of you that may not remember me. I was raised in CS as a young boy and hung with it in the first few years of my military career. I drifted away when some questions that I had could not be answered. I married and had a son and I still had unanswered questions. My wife and I found a church that we were comfortable in and some of my answers were realized and I was baptized and saved. I am active in my church and have twice given my testimony publicly, once to the congregation on Easter and again at an community outreach that our church had recently. Many members of the church have come up to me expressing gratitude that I gave my testimony and that it really affected them and thier guests that they brought to the outreach.
So that is a brief history, and I guess now to my question: Whenever I am alone in Bible study and pray, I keep getting the feeling that I may have abandoned CS too early; that I did not give it a long enough chance.
Funny thing is, is that I am quite happy in my current church and my life has never been better. My wife and I were having some difficulties before we found the church and became baptized, but those have vanished. Prayers regading our son's education have been answered and we have been able to meet the financial pressures for that education with ease.
I have internally rationalized this as an attack from Satan trying to drive a wedge between me and the Father and I understand that he will choose an area that is a weak spot on my armor and attack it and have prayed as such, but the feeling mentioned earlier has not abated and in fact has become worse.
Any guidance or help that you all can provide would be welcome.
Dave

Birth Defects

Priscilla — Mon, 07 Aug 2006 08:24:20 GMT

When a child is born with a birth defect to a CS mother, whose error is it?

Feelings of guilt when I'm sick

polarbear — Sat, 22 Oct 2005 08:43:25 GMT

Hi friends,

I just need to vent a bit, and maybe get some feedback. I'm a pre-school teacher, and one of the occupational hazards is catching all the bugs that the little ones so freely share. (Too bad they don't share toys so freely!!) I try to take all the precautions: washing my hands frequently, getting enough rest, eating right, etc., but every time I get sick I find myself feeling guilty, as if it's my fault. It's just in the past few months that I've realized that those feelings of guilt come from CS. Duh! This week I've had a nasty cold, and the guilt -- even shame -- has come on strong. I keep trying to counteract the lies of CS with the Truth from Scripture. Do any of you struggle like I do? If so, will you share how you handle it? I suspect that I would get over these minor illnesses faster if I wasn't so bogged down with the bad feelings.

Thanks for listening.

Polarbear

Should a Christian be a healer?

Anonymous — Thu, 14 Sep 2006 14:08:56 GMT

Whatever one thinks about Christian Science, it's quite clear from the Bible that Jesus requires us to be healers. The following quotes are from the King James Version:

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Mark 16: 17-18.

"And Jesus answering them said unto them, Have faith in God. For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." Mark 11: 22-24.

Christian Science Healings

Anonymous — Thu, 14 Sep 2006 04:48:21 GMT

Here are a few experiences I've had. I'll keep them very brief, but I can expand if anyone is interested.

I had terrible pain in my hip. Couldn't walk properly at times. Sometimes I was fine and other times in agony. I woujld literally scream aloud at times if it caught me suddenly. Never had it diagnosed. Spent a lot of time in prayer as taught in Christian Science, denying the reality of evil and affirming the truth of good. One morning as I was doing this, I felt a sense of warmth in the affected part. The problem was gone! This was in the early eighties--I've been fine since then, can walk, run, hike in the mountains etc.

A young relative was diagnosed as having no permanent teeth. I affirmed the truth about the spiritual substance of teeth. She is now a teenager with normal teeth. In fact the person who told me about the problem had forgotten about it until I reminded that person.

One morning I woke up with a strong sense that my family were in danger. I declared the truth that accidents are unknown to God, therefore they are unknown to man in God's likeness, until I felt comfortable about the situation. Later that day a family member casually remarked, "You know, some lunatic in a truck nearly killed us this morning." They were fine--the accident had been averted.

Christian Science works. Mind-control doesn't (a lot of what is talked about on this forum seems to be some kind of mind control which people have mistakenly called Christian Science).

In honesty, I've also had things that weren't healed in CS, and problems that were alleviated, but not totally healed. I've been medicine-free for thirty years (apart from some dental issues) but if I had to see a doctor I don't think I'd be too concerned about it.

At times I feel I could do better, but I've never felt any sense of guilt about unhealed problems. Maybe it helps that I wasn't brought up in Christian Science (or in whatever passes for Christian Science in parts of the US!)

All those damaged Christian Scientists

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Sep 2006 13:30:13 GMT

Reading the posts from all those damaged Christian Scientists is a real eye-opener. I've been a Christian Scientist for more than thirty years, but wasn't raised in it, and live in a part of the world where CS are few and far between. In that time I've managed to get through my life without troubling the medical profession--with the exception of dental work--and I've had many healings which I attribute to Christian Science in a way that I'm comfortable with, but probably couldn't actually prove. (Though I'm sure the early Christians would have had similar problems if they'd been called on to replicate healings under laboratory conditions!) Due to my isolation I've had to rely on the books rather than on fellowship with a lot of other CS, which I'm sure was a blessing in disguise.

In honesty I have to say that there is a problem with some Christian Scientists who delay too long before relinquishing CS for medical aid, in the cases where the former hasn't worked. This is particularly the case in regard to people with family responsibilities. I think the problem is that CS practitioners aren't trained (or allowed) to diagnose disease, so they wouldn't be able to say if someone was in the early stages of cancer, or whatever, or if they had something communicable. Furthermore, the experience of Christian Science treatment through prayer is such a joyous and inspiring one that the prospect of depressing, painful and expensive hospital visits is one that is not attractive in comparison. I don't have an easy answer to this one, except the old cliche that CS stands for "common sense" as well as "Christian Science".

Reading about the uncaring and dogmatic attitudes of some Christian Science parents and families, I'm sure there is something pathological about the way religion functions in some of those cases. However, this phenomenon of religious pathology is not confined to CS--for example there is a pervasive and unconscious self-righteousness and judgementalism in many "traditional" Christians and Christian families that is just the opposite of Jesus' teachings. This is getting into issues of sociology and social psychology that I don't have the time to get into here. Suffice it to say that it's not just a CS issue. People do all kinds of awful things in the name of religion--not too long ago, Catholics and Protestants were burning each other alive. Let's not judge each other, but cherish healing wherever it occurs.

Christian Scientist dies after refusing medical care

Anonymous — Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:22:36 GMT

Hi, friends:

This appeared in a South Carolina newspaper today. I have used ellipsis to denote where I've deleted paragraphs from the article.

Regards,

RisRap

---------

Christian Scientist dies after refusing medical care

By DAVID WILLIAMS

Anderson Independent-Mail

December 14, 2005

SENECA — A woman who declined emergency medical care because of her faith died Wednesday from injuries related to an automobile accident on Dec. 8, authorities said.

Jane Elizabeth Roberts, 74, of 407 S. Walnut St., Seneca, received a concussion in the Dec. 8 automobile accident. She was driving on North Pine Street near Northside Elementary School, toward U.S. 123, when her car ran off the right side of the road and down an embankment, striking several small trees.

Ms. Roberts, a Christian Scientist, had no visible injuries and refused to be transported to the Oconee Memorial Hospital emergency room, according to Oconee County Coroner Karl Addis. He said the only help she requested was help from her vehicle to the road and then a ride home from police, which was provided.

Officers asked her again at the accident scene if she wanted medical assistance, but she declined, citing her Christian Science faith.

...

A member who answered the phone at the Christian Science reading room in Seneca Wednesday night said Ms. Roberts had relied on prayer for healing for her entire life, and wanted to continue to do so.

Ms. Roberts had been at her home since the accident and someone was with her around the clock. She had become increasingly unresponsive over the last several days before her death, Mr. Addis said. He added that family members were present when she died. He was called to the house by Emergency Medical Service workers.

Ms. Roberts had no pertinent past medical history and no attending physician, Mr. Addis said.

An autopsy showed that a concussion led to swelling of the brain, which led to respiratory failure, Addis said.

Ms. Roberts reportedly told police and Emergency Medical Services technicians, who were called to the scene, that she was wearing her seatbelt during the wreck.

...

---END--

Sharing CS experiences

Spring — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 03:07:55 GMT

Most of us experienced major events/problems during our CS times which were either caused by CS or in which the CS approach let us deal with them in a completely different way compared to how a non-CSist would have dealt with it. And some of us continue to struggle with the aftereffects of such events, either physically or emotionally or both. For someone not knowing CS, it wouldn't make sense, and looking at our lives without knowing about our CS involvement they may not understand us.

How do you go about such experiences with outsiders, do you share your CS experience, try to explain why you did what, or do you reserve that to very close friends or try to hide it - especially if you experienced neglect etc. through CS which shows its effects many years later? And if you share it, how do people react?

Marion

A question on a MBE Quote re drugs

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:41:06 GMT

" Prayer to a corporeal God affects the sick like a
drug, which has no efficacy of its own but borrows its
18 power from human faith and belief. The drug does
nothing, because it has no intelligence. It is a mortal
belief, not divine Principle or Love, which causes a
21 drug to be apparently either poisonous or sanative. "

TMCL or any other currently practicing CSist,

In reading the chapter entitled "Prayer", I found the above quote in S&H. When I was a young student of CS (40 years ago), I always believed this paragraph to mean that drugs could not interact with our body unless we gave them "power" to effect us.

However, when I read it now, I am not sure if Mrs. Eddy was saying that or not (I sincerely HOPE that is not what she is saying, anyways!). Would you mind telling what you believe this paragraph to mean? I am not trying to put you on the spot, but honestly would like to know what a Christian Scientist of today believes Mrs. Eddy is saying here. I know her topic is prayer, but she seems to be saying that a Christian Scientist can take drugs and they won't be impacted positively or negatively, unless they believe the drug to have power over them. My fear is that a CS child might believe that they could take a narcotic drug, and if they pray correctly, that drug won't hurt them. Am I reading it wrong?

Thanks for any answer you can provide.

Sincerely,
One who has left CS, but is still curious

Sick and need help

Anonymous — Fri, 19 May 2006 19:02:12 GMT

My husband is ill. He will not admit he is ill. He is a Christian Scientist and I am an evangelical Christian. (Odd, I know.) What do I do? Is there a way that I can make him understand that he needs help? Or am I just living a lost cause?
I am...
Frustrated and scared.

CS Care or the Hospital?

Anonymous — Tue, 28 Feb 2006 12:37:06 GMT

My mother-in-law has been in a CS nursing facility (6 hours away from us) for almost 3 months now. It's become very clear to us that we're now dealing with a life-threatening illness but she (a practitioner) has begged us not to take her to a hospital. Needless to say, we don't know what to do. Do we leave her there to face certain death, or do we take her out of the facility (against her will), put her in a hospital and face the consequences of that decision?

Has anyone faced a decision like this? Which way did you go and what was the outcome?

Bird flu

Anonymous — Wed, 08 Mar 2006 19:47:47 GMT

This has been a subject in newspapers and magazines for the past week as bird flu finds its way into western Europe. As an ex-Christian Scientist I feel I pretty much know how this church is 'fighting' the impact it may have in this country which is predicted to launch a hellish appearance sometime within 6-9 months. Are evangelicals praying for medical science to find vaccines, medicines, or even a cure? What approach are you all taking to offset this predicted disaster or, worse, pandemic?

My entire CS experience can be summed up

Ryniev — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 06:08:24 GMT

with this moment that happened maybe 15 years ago. I was having lunch with my mother and we were standing in a parking lot having a discussion. Now our "discussions" have always gone like this: Everything CS is wonderful and perfect, all CSers are great, every other religion is false, bad, or weird, Principia's concerts are so much more superior than anything my kids public school can come up with, Principia kids are more poised and mature, there was a great article in the Journal, Sentinel or the lesson this week was just fantabulous, the Mother Ship is doing something "interesting" etc. etc. etc. If I happen to mention that one of my children was getting baptized, going to VBS or anything to do with a religion other than CS my mother would get a look on her face like she just swallowed dog poop and then promptly change the subject back to CS or Prin or MBE. When she attended my daughter's baptism she acted literally ill, said she couldn't stand Protestant churches and pretty much made everyone else uncomfortable which is why she was never even invited to my older children's baptism's in the first place. Basically, I learned not to share my life with her because anything not CS was met with disgust or disapproval.

So back to this moment 15 years ago in a parking lot. She was blathering on about CS and I got up the nerve to tell her that all she ever talked about was CS and that I would really appreciate it if I could talk about my spirituality. She got a look of annoyance about her and then out with the guilt trip. She said, "All I EVER wanted in my ENTIRE life was for you and your brother to be GOOD CHRISTIAN SCIENTISTS" That's it!! No, I want you to be happy, I want you to have a good marriage, I want you to graduate from college and have a fulfilling career, I want you to be a good person, I want you to do what makes YOU happy, I want you to love God the way you understand God. NOPE! None of that matters as long as you are a Christian Scientist. Now I know this is true because I went through a severe depression later and tried to go back to Christian Science instead of relying on therapy and medication and I was a mess and she could CS me to death and it was the first time in years I felt she truly cared. When I realized that I was going nowhere fast and went back to therapy and on meds she was seething.

I feel sorry for her.

Understanding Hypnotic Thinking

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 08:20:03 GMT

Hi All,
It's Frogs Here,

Check out this link, Understanding Hypnotic Thinking, look at that, I can't even bring myself to post the "B" word, cause it's identifying a "material" part of the body.

I found it a very interesting read, and explains a lot about how we CS people were trained to think, as opposed to conceptualizing reality for what it really is. Thought I would put it under this Recovery and Health Related Issues category, as I think it will help in the identification process of how we think.

Toodles,

Frogs25

(edited by Moderator to make the link work)

want this off my mind!!!!

frogs25 — Thu, 25 Aug 2005 22:06:03 GMT

OK, I need an AA for CS!!!!!

I just need this off my mind!!!!!

I have tried so hard to stay away from it......I CAN"T

I am beyond fustrated......It consumes my thought even when I'm not thinking of it!!!!

I have kept away from this website so that less concentration would be on CS and more focus given to reading the Bible and moving on with my life!!!! I thought I have throughly gone through my validation stage.....that is why you guys haven't seen me for a while.....But I couldn't resist.....and had to come back here.

CS is continuing to haunt me.......All it took was an email from my CS teacher just curious to see what I was up to, and my step-mother wondering if I attended my associations. As for my CS teacher, I emailed him strictly telling him about all my exciting activites not once mentioning anything CS related. He replied with four paragraphs of MBE CS jargon and quotes. As for my step-mothers email, I never responded. These two things were so minor yet affected me sooooooooo much!

I'm afraid it is never going to leave my mind.

I mean look at FH or SFJ or Marion.......They have been on here on these forums since they began.........How can you be completely deprogrammed if you continue to contribute to the forums?

Like biting my nails, CS is a bad habit, that will never go away.

Frogs25

Memorial service for a CS????

Anonymous — Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:55:44 GMT

Any ideas for holding a memorial service for my grandma?????

My grandma passed away this last week and was a CS her entire life. Her husband, my grandpa, is acting like everything is just fine. He is a CS practioner. Our family is getting together this weekend to honor her life, but here is the catch. My grandpa wants the day to be as "unemotional" as possible. We grew up as CS but have since left. We feel like we are forbidden to even remember who she was and celebrate our memories of her.
One of the hardest things was she isolated herself from us about 6 months ago so she could heal herself and clear her thoughts. The last memory I have of her was in the summer when she gave us some really nice jewelry. I was able to tell her I loved her. The other thing that is hard is from what I understand she was in a great amount of pain. My siblings and I are having a hard time dealing with this because we aren't allowed to grieve. We do have members of our church praying for us. Any thoughts or ideas would be most appreciative.

Thanks,
D.B.

The most unfair thing about Christian Science

Grace — Wed, 01 Mar 2006 18:43:20 GMT

Hi all!

Please indulge me this little soap-box moment -- I promise to try and not take advantage of the opportunity!

I believe it must be said, though, that one of the most unfair things about Christian Science and those who were raised in it is that its teachings do leave out the need to take practical care of the human body and to learn basic preventative healthcare. As children, many of us were "exempted" from biology classes, health classes, field trips to the local hospital, regular trips to the school nurse for vision and hearing tests, immunizations, etc. While our parents believed that as Christian Scientists they were doing what was right for us, they were misled and we were, therefore, not informed about all the basic hygenic, day-to-day things that so many non-Christian Scientists take for granted. Those of us who have left CS, and especially those who came from several generations of Christian Scientists, know what I mean because they have had to start at the bottom and learn as they go -- the HARD way. Ask questions when still in the dark, sort of speak. Not even always knowing what the right questions are, never mind the answers!

What brings this to mind is what I just wrote in the last thread about my mom eating a cheeseburger at the CS Benevolent Assoc. hours after having a stroke. I practically have a stroke myself just thinking about that! No one taught her (or me) about cholesterol, fatty foods, too much sugar being unhealthy, staying away from second-hand smoke, washing hands to protect from germs, covering your mouth when you cough, watching your weight, exercising, lifting with your knees and not your back, and on and on and on. So many things which could have prevented so much physical pain and so many calls to the practitioner! I remember many times being told to not listen (or to reverse in my thought) when people spoke of sickness or even of health (as in proper ways to get and stay healthy). It simply wasn't Christian Science!

Instead, my time was spent memorizing Science and Health and Mrs. Eddy's Miscellaneous Writings -- not kidding here, I really knew much of it by heart and could find any statement I hadn't yet memorized in pretty much no time at all -- and then trying to practice what I read.

As a good example, my mother was constantly working with practitioners because of cold sores on her mouth and nose. When I was small, she had them quite often and I remember the scratchiness of her kisses when she'd kiss me goodnight or goodmorning. Did she know they were contagious? Nope. So guess what? I began suffering from them before nursery school age. What's worse was that she didn't tell me not to touch them and then touch other parts of my face -- especially my eyes. So guess what? You probably don't have to think very long to know that I have them regularly to this day on my nose, several places on my lips, on the corners of both eyes, my eyelids and even in my eyes, which can cause blindness if not treated properly. With God's help (NOT CS help), I did not go blind when still in CS. But believe me, several doctors have told me that only a miracle has kept me from losing my sight and I now have them treated the moment they appear. Finally, with prescriptions any cold sore can be gone within a day rather than within weeks.

But, alll of this misery could have been avoided if my mother had been brought to a doctor as a child or brought me there myself when I struggled with them, or read a medical reference book or even the dictionary to find out what a cold sore is! Instead, I was told to pray and that I needed to purify my though so that only God's beauty would show on my face. When the sores were gone, I'd think i'd been healed, until I became stressed out and they would return. What a vicious cycle and what a complete waste of energy!

Enough -- I'm breaking out just thinking about it! Not really, but the possibility exists and I find it no longer worth the pain to stare at my CS past too long at one time. Little steps in the right direction are better for me than jumping up and down furiously and getting no where -- so I've come to realize! I know the joy is in the journey, but it is also important to keep my eyes fixed on the true prize!

Thanks so much, as always, for this site and for all the wonderful people who post here and who read and then support through prayer and compassionate sharing-of-the-heart.

-- Grace

CS and Lying?

ri_olson — Tue, 07 Jun 2005 15:40:00 GMT

Has anyone experienced the need to lie about things that might cause emotional pain. To make up stories that make something that you have done wrong, hurt someone, like your spouse, or something you don't want to face. I was a CSer from birth to 30 years old and not sure if I have really given it up down deep. I am a now a real christian, that has screwed up my marriage by what I think is caused by the brainwashing of this cult. I had a mother that was obsesesed with the cult and stuck with it till her death. She let my sister die at 7 years old and discovered 40 years later she didn't even mark her grave. Enough with the crying.

Forgiving Mrs. Eddy

Grace — Thu, 14 Jul 2005 14:42:00 GMT

Hi again Everyone,

I just heard a segment on a Christian Radio Station entitled Christian Working Woman (www.christianworkingwoman.org) about the importance of forgiving even when the person we are forgiving doesn't know that they need to be forgiven. The speaker referred to when Jesus was on the cross and spoke the words "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do." She said that we need to keep this in mind when we find ourselves faced with someone who is sinning in any way (through hurting others, lying, deceiving, false prophesying, false witnessing, stealing, etc.) and remember the importance of forgiveness for both the one forgiven and for the forgiver. It keeps the forgiver from becoming bitter and resentful. Such qualities cause us much internal turmoil and pain and also keep us from effectively communicating with others, which is something which God has required each of us to do to the very best of our ability.

My first thought was whether or not there was someone I still needed to forgive and I thought of how I have been struggling with feeling really angry and deceived by Mrs. Eddy. I have been really upset about that lately -- how much time I wasted and how my parents and so many others died without knowing the truth about the Bible, yet all the time thinking they did know it. I've been struggling over the fact that people I love may have died and not received salvation at all, but may even be in the torments of hell because of what they believed and all because of what Mrs. Eddy taught them to be true in her writings. Anyway, the point is, I realized I really need to try and forgive Mrs. Eddy.

The first thought was -- no way! But then I came to see that forgiving isn't excusing. There is no excuse for her behavior. And it's not up to me to unearth one somehow. But, there is definitely forgiveness. And it needs to be given not for Mrs. Eddy's sake alone, but in order that I can be free of the hold of CS deep inside. I think this is true for so many others as well. As long as that resentment keeps her in my thoughts, it keeps the ghost of CS in there as well!

Anyway, just a thought. Now for the hard part -- attempting to actually FORGIVE! Any ideas?

-- Grace