The Christian Way Forums / The Christian Way Forums / CS - General Discussion Not Related to Doctrine

Christian Science in the news

followingHim — Sat, 08 Feb 2003 20:56:06 GMT

Occasionally, the cs church and "movement" show up in the news. We're certainly familiar with the reports of cs members, and, more tragically, their children as a result of their "treatment." cs is newsworthy in other ways, too. I propose that we use the Forum as an opportunity to keep ourselves abreast of what is going on with the cs organization, whether it be "the mother church" ("tmc," as they refer to it in Boston," events in "the Field" (branch churches, associations, personalities, etc.), ecclesiastical/theological issues, and - especially - health matters (pun intended).

Here is an article from the Lexington, Mass, "Minuteman." Don't let the title fool you! http://www.townonline.com/lexington/news/local_regional/lex_newlmchurchsb02062003.htm Since many journalists are religious illiterates, it is not suprising that the writer got the cults "Scientology" and "Christian Science" confused. (Satan will be happy if you follow either of them!) This article is about the property sale of yet another branch church, in Lexington, Massachusetts.
Yes, this is the town where "the shot heard round the world" was fired on April 19, 1775. The Battle Road and the Town Common are still popular tourist attractions. It is --typically -- an affluent suburb, 12.5 miles Northwest of Boston on the high-tech "128" belt. The town where Liberty sprang forth will have a little less spiritual bondage.

Two things are especially interesting. One is that they are not apparently closing down the branch--just looking for a smaller space. But still, cs "command central," the mother church, will undoubtedly get the $1.5m. Also, it is an excellent example of the cs gift for euphemism. Instead of saying something like, "It's a big, elegent building from a by-gone era, and our small group of elderly members feel minisucle in it," branch Chairman Albert Brown said, "the building has outgrown our congregation a bit."

Isn't that fantastic! Let's hope and pray that a bonafide, Biblically based Christian group can acquire the property!

Let's use this post for other newsworthy items regarding christian science.

The Myth of Christian Science Healing

Phoenix Rising — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:43:22 GMT

I thought it would be interesting to open a discussion of the things, actions, words, that help perpetuate the myth that Christian Science heals every ill, from headaches to cancer, warts to heart attacks, and even resurrects people from death. This topic is so very important because its what leads Christian Scientists to put themselves at risk when they suffer life threatening illnesses or accidents and they choose to deny medical care.

I'll list some here that I can think of and would like to hear some of your opinions.

*Periodicals and Wednesday night church services where other Christian Scientists can tell their "stories" of healings. which have not been subject to any kind of scientific scrutiny.

*Severe lack of understanding of the body and medical procedures which leads to being easily misled by these "stories" that so often dont ring true or would not survive any kind of medical or intellectual scrutiny.

*The supression of the failures of healings and the repitition and retelling of supposed healings.

*Denial: Denial that problems exist. So problems will not even be woked on in the first place, because working on them doensn't fix them so its better to just deny they are there.

*Practitioners and teachers, who boil it all down to 2+2=4 and therefore you are a perfect child of God and therefore you have NO severed artery and so you CANT bleed to death...NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT!!!!

*Religious Zeal (stupidity) which allows a bright educated person to ignore all the NONhealings he has witnessed and suffered in his life, yet still chose to rely on prayer in a life threatening circumstance.

*Peer Pressure (family pressure, church pressure)

Square Peg

The Practitioner Pinch

Phoenix Rising — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 13:24:48 GMT

There have been a lot of comments about practitioners in this forum and I thought it would be helpful to make a thread for a discussion of issues concerning practitioners. I'm going to list some topics that I would like to see discussed. Please contribute your experiences and your thoughts!

*Can someone address the guidelines a practitioner is supposed to follow when talking to a patient. I know I have reported things a practitioner has said and was told they are not allowed to say those things...what can they say? What can't they say?

*THEN it would be interesting to have some feedback about all the times YOUR practitioner did not follow those guidelines.

*How can a Christian Scientist, morally, become a practitioner, take on patients to heal, when they themselves have a chronic illness they they cannot heal? Would a patient feel comfortable depending on a practitioner if they KNEW the practitioner had some chronic illness?

*Its been my observation that CSers use practitioners for a wide variety of problems and situations...way more than a "regular" person would use a doctor AND a clergyman. Is this encouraged? Don't you think that fosters a climate of dependence?

*I have heard, many times, comments made about certain practitioners "doing good work" for someone. DO practitioners do the work, or does it depend on the patient's understanding? It seems like if there is a healing it was the "good work" and if there isnt a healing its the patient's fault for not understanding. Does that really make sense? Why pay a person to WORK for you if its YOUR basic understanding that does the healing?

*THAT leads directly to the issue of UNDERSTANDING. How high IS the bar of UNDERSTANDING in Christian Science? HOW many years of study does it take? Our loved ones, lifelong CSers who sicken and die, under the care of a practitioner in many cases, and "didnt get their healing" are simply kicked to the curb by practicing CSers who come here and explain it all by telling us their understanding was not good enough. Does MBE say it takes more than decades of study to get it? If your understanding is great enough to heal a headache doesnt it follow that its great enough to heal anything? How can animals and children be healed by others, if animals and children cannot have ANY understanding as opposed to a life long CSer who didnt have enough?

Square Peg

MBE sues months after her "accident" ?

Seeking — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:01:09 GMT

I've been following this site for years now! I finally decided to get a user ID and participate.

I wont go into my history or an introduction now. What I must do is ask for some information !

When I read that MBE sued the city months down the line after her accident and "healing", I

was intrigued ! This famous healing got the CS ball rolling. How could she be sueing the city months

later claiming she was still suffering the effects of the fall if she was healed ? I bounced this off a

open minded family member who is CS and he was really blown away. Unfortunately I could not give

any detailed info to back this up. Can anybody point me to or supply me with any documentation to

verify this? I would be most grateful.

Thank you !

The new face of CS??? –Rabbi David Louis

Mere Kat — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 08:15:37 GMT

Oy vey. There on the official CS flag ship web page [url=http://www.spirituality.com/]spirituality.com[/url], "designed to heal, inspire, and guide you on your spiritual journey" is a special, starred announcement pointing to a short video interview with Rabbi David Louis. It's fascinating. Apparently you no longer need S&H or Jesus to heal you. You can treat cancer with a combination of medicine and surgeries, and a short visit to your neighborhood CS reading room. Moreover you can drink beer and have a good time while you are convalescing. Unfortunately, the cure is good for only one year, but it is a good year. Does anyone else see a problem with this?

The Rabbi is apparently enamored with the CS mystique; he even took a course on it (class instruction??), so he could heal others. I don't mean to belittle the Rabbi's experience. I'm happy he was able to mix prayer and medicine so successfully. I'm happy he was able to find comfort talking to the reading room lady. I'm happy his father's cancer went into remission after the change in medications, and I'm happy his father regained his quality of life for his last year. But, I'm not happy that the CS church is using his story to inspire and guide others to experience CS. This misleads others by presenting CS as something that it is not. It devalues the experience of countless CSists, who unquestioningly held to the ideal of radical reliance on CS, even to the point of death.
Some may defend this presentation, by saying that spirituality.com is just trying to be more ecumenical, showing differing views of spiritual healing. But the Rabbi calls it CS, and the rest of the site is very much steeped in CS culture. Not many years ago, applications for CS church membership either explicitly or implicitly denied entry to anyone who used medicine, tobacco, or alcohol. In the last several years, those requirements were dropped in favor or becoming more inclusive of everyone. I wonder if this interview is step one in the church's attempt to wean itself from MBE's concept of radical reliance?

What do Christian Science professionals actually earn?

followingHim — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 03:45:38 GMT

Recent posts on CS's possible inclusion in President Obama's healthcare/health payment bill provoked some thoughts and questions. A practioner is supposed to charge the same rate as a doctor. But do they? And how many patients does a practioner typically "treat" each day, each week?

It is my hunch that very few practioners and teachers meet the requirement (or is it just an expectation?) to be self-supporting in "the Practice" and qualify for a "card" (listing) in the [i]Journal of Christian Science[/i].

Does anybody have good information on this?

CS by the numbers

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Jun 2006 22:07:57 GMT

Hi, friends:

Using the information available at the TMC website,
I've compiled the worldwide church and society totals as of June 15.
The percentage drop from a year ago was 1.2%. Most new
churches/societies opened in Africa. No surprise that the annual
meeting had video from Africa.

The Mother Church should be more honest than saying it has about 2,000
churches and societies worldwide when it has 1,807. By using the 2,000
figure, TMC is overestimating its totals by 10.7%.

June 2006 churches: 1,279
June 2006 societies 528
-------------------------
June 2006 total 1,807

June 2005 churches: 1,318
June 2005 societies: 513
--------------------
June 2005 total: 1,831

Apr. 2004 churches: 1,380
Apr. 2004 societies: 535
--------------------
Apr. 2004 total: 1,915

Oct. 2002 churches: 1,439
Oct. 2002 societies: 531
--------------------
Oct. 2002 total: 1,970

June 2006 numbers
USA: 990 churches, 300 societies
Canada: 26 churches, 14 societies
Rest of World: 263 churches, 214 societies

June 2005 numbers

USA: 1,021 churches, 293 societies
Canada: 27 churches, 14 societies
Rest of World: 270 churches, 206 societies

April 2004 numbers

USA: 1,074 churches, 306 societies
Canada: 29 churches, 16 societies
Rest of World: 277 churches, 209 societies

October 2002 numbers

USA: 1,115 churches, 290 societies
Canada: 32 churches, 17 societies
Rest of World: 292 churches, 227 societies

Country Churches-Societies

Argentina 11-4
Australia 27-9
Austria 2-0
Bahamas 0-2
Barbados 1-0

Belgium 1-0
Benin 0-1
Bermuda 0-1
Brazil 10-5
Cameroon 2-6

Canada 26-14
Chile 2-2
China 1-0
Colombia 2-1
Congo (DR) 5-8

Congo (Rep) 0-4
Cuba 1-0
Czech Rep. 0-1
Denmark 2-0
Ecuador 0-1

Egypt 0-1
Finland 0-1
France 6-4
Germany 37-31
Ghana 1-4

Gr. Britain 76-46
Greece 1-0
Grenada 1-0
Guam 0-1
Guatemala 0-1

India 3-2
Indonesia 2-3
Ireland 1-1
Israel 0-1
Italy 3-0

Ivory Coast 0-1
Jamaica 1-0
Japan 1-1
Kazakhstan 0-1
Kenya 1-6

Korea 0-1
Latvia 0-1
Madagascar 0-1
Mauritius 0-1
Mexico 2-1

Namibia 0-1
Netherlands 3-2
New Zealand 7-7
Nigeria 5-14
Norway 0-1

Peru 1-2
Philippines 3-0
Poland 0-1
Portugal 1-2
Puerto Rico 1-0

Russia 0-1
Rwanda 0-1
Sierra Leone 0-1
South Africa 11-6
Spain 2-3

Sweden 1-2
Switzerland 13-7
Thailand 0-1
Togo 0-1
Trin/Tobago 1-0

Uganda 0-2
Uruguay 7-1
Venezuela 1-0
Virgin Islands 0-1
Zambia 1-1
Zimbabwe 2-1

-----

United States

Alabama 6-5
Alaska 5-2
Arizona 18-6
Arkansas 7-6
California 181-21

Colorado 19-9
Connecticut 18-2
Delaware 4-0
D.C. 6-0
Florida 64-16

Georgia 11-6
Hawaii 4-3
Idaho 2-7
Illinois 58-9
Indiana 23-6

Iowa 10-5
Kansas 6-7
Kentucky 6-1
Louisiana 5-6
Maine 10-6

Maryland 14-5
Mass. 45-9
Mich. 35-11
Minn. 12-4
Miss. 1-3

Missouri 23-9
Mont. 6-3
Neb. 7-3
Nev. 3-0
NH 13-3

NJ 18-7
NM 6-3
NY 54-14
NC 15-10
ND 0-1

Ohio 36-8
Okla. 11-1
Ore. 26-8
Pa. 32-9
RI 3-1

SC 7-3
SD 1-3
Tenn. 7-6
Texas 48-17
Utah 4-1

Vermont 6-6
Virginia 22-3
Wash. 40-8
W.Va. 5-3
Wis. 25-11
Wyo. 2-4

--END--

LA Law - As God is My Co-Defendent

Do_Go_Be_Man — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 16:14:51 GMT

[url=http://www.americanlifetv.com/]American Life Network[/url] is running the LA Law episode tonight that features a case involving Christian Science. It's running now and will rerun later.

Do Go Be Man
<><

The Secret

SharonMarie — Mon, 19 Feb 2007 16:27:22 GMT

Has anyone read the bestseller book "The Secret"? There is a DVD and a book and it is all the rage on Oprah and a couple of other talk shows. I think Ellen Degeneres had some of the folks in the book on her show. I bought the book and as far as I can see it mirrors CS in many ways. I almost choked watching Oprah because she was gasping and in total awe of this "new" way of thinking. They claim that this is actually a thought process that is as old as time and known by all the successful people over centuries. It is a "scientific law", according to the authors that there is a "law" of "attraction". This means (according to them) that what you think about is what you get. Where have I heard that all my life?

CS Nursing Home Records

Gentle Dove — Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:13:39 GMT

Does anyone know if the CS nursing facilities keep detailed patient records? For instance, do they note changes in the patient, what they ate, who attended them etc? If so, how could one go about getting a copy...other than an outright lawsuit?

Review of "Science and Health"

Phil — Fri, 29 Dec 2006 02:37:30 GMT

Many people on this forum will be intimately familiar with the contents of the Christian Science textbook, and will have formed strong opinions about it. I wonder if it would be beneficial if you could make your views known by posting a review of it on Amazon. The reason I say this is that most of the reviews there are positive, clearly put there by committed Christian Scientists. To provide some balance to the picture I think it would be useful if other viewpoints were made available to the general public. If you imagine reading the book from the standpoint of someone who hasn't been taught Christian Science, the book stands out as an atrociously bad piece of literature, even before you begin to think about the theological or health care content. This makes writing a review fairly easy. Reviews can also be anonymous if you wish.

Cult Like Behavior With Teachers and Practitioners

Square Peg — Sat, 30 Jul 2005 07:09:15 GMT

Hello all!

As you may recall, I was not raised as a CSer but married one, belonged to the TMC for a number of years before quitting, and have been an "inside" witness to the CS community for a long time. I know the "cult" term raises high emotions here so I hesitate to use it. But since observing a relatively young CS friend die recently because he would not seek medical help, my irritation with CS has reached new heights. The relying on prayer = DEATH suddenly hit home. Oh I had heard of lots of other young CSers die that I kind of knew or knew of...but this was someone I loved and I was privy to his day to day suffering and what practitioners were telling him.

I have thought long and hard about the behavior I have witnessed among CSers over the years and now I believe CS IS a cult. That aside, lets not discuss "cult" on this thread but this odd worship and dependence on one's teacher and/or practitioner AND the often controlling behavior of the teacher and/or the practitioner. One of the definitions of cult is religious veneration of/great devotion to a person. I have seen this a lot in these unnatural relationships between teachers and practitioners and their "followers"/patients.

I myself am not class taught. But I have been in close contact with some teachers and their students. Wow...some really odd relationships there. These teachers are idolized by some of their students like your local rock star, I hesitate to say...ummmmm Jesus? They have a group of people who trail after them as if they were the peid piper. These people vie for positions where they can be in close daily contact with their teacher...their minions, so to speak. And it is not discouraged. What makes CS teachers SO darn special? Lots of men and women in this country have lengthy religious educations at colleges and universities and dedicate their lives to religion as ministers or educators. Do THEY have a flock of devotees following them around? Do THEY encourage it? This is just plain.... cultish. Im not saying that ALL students act this way, or this is ALL teachers...but I've seen a lot of it.

What is even MORE disturbing to me is the unnatural relationships between SOME people and their practioners. Some practitioners seem to revel in controlling their patients lives to a much greater degree than could possibly be considered normal. And on the opposite side, seems CSers, a lot of them, like to be controlled, are somehow conditioned to think that they cant get through ANY difficulty without the help of their practitioner. Its interesting to me that CS basically says that fear is the cause of problems, but it seems that these people are riddled with fear about the most minor things because practitioners will tell you that if you dont pray about it then *X* will happen. My CS mother-in-law, a practitioner, used to tell me all the time that if I didnt pray about it then *X* would happen to my kids. That is fear mongering and that is cultish.

In my own personal experience, my husband has ALWAYS taken every weighty problem to his mother, the practitioner. This does not just include health problems, but problems with our children and work related problems. It has caused a rift in our marriage because I feel most of these problems are something a husband normally seeks out his wife for, not his mother. But *I* have nothing to offer. He needs his practitioner and his books.

I have seen a case where a friend was pressured by the practitioner/teacher into not using another practitioner when the problem was not being healed. Cultish

While I may have seen a doctor on an average of once every few years over my lifetime, my CS friends are on the phone to the practitioner several times a month and more.

I have witnessed a lot more instances of this behavior but dont really want to get into too many specifics for the obvious reasons.

Ill be interested to hear if any of you who grew up in CS have witnessed any of the same odd relationships.

Sorry if I have offended anyone with my opinions and comments. I try to respect peoples belief's, but its awful to see people pay the ultimate price when it isnt necessary....so Im very upset right now with the those who perpetuate the practice of CS with half truths and cultish behavior and practices.

Square Peg

"Exciting News from The Christian Science Monitor"

Do_Go_Be_Man — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:21:12 GMT

The following message sent out this afternoon may interest some of you. Seems to me that in some ways that the Monitor may be on the leading edge of print media, but it does also demonstrate other realities. Killing trees for daily newspapers is so last century. :)

Do Go Be Man
<><

From the Board of Trustees of The Christian Science Publishing Society and the Christian Science Board of Directors:

Changes coming to The Christian Science Monitor

We wanted you, as an employee of The Mother Church, to be among the first to know about coming changes to The Christian Science Monitor. For an overview, please [url=http://www.churchofchristscientist.org/csmonitor/letter]read our letter[/url] to Mother Church members. The text is also below. (I didn't include it)

For more information, please watch this [url=http://flashplayer.streamos.com/flvplayer.php?url=http://csps.edgeboss.net/flash/csps/csm/csm-vision-081021_flash_high.flv]15 minute video[/url] with Monitor Editor John Yemma and Managing Publisher Jonathan Wells about the vision for the Monitor’s future.

You can also read a [url=http://www.churchofchristscientist.org/csmonitor/questionsandanswers]Frequently Asked Questions[/url] section on the Church website. If, after reading this, you have more questions, please send them to QuestionsCSMonitor@csps.com. They will be addressed during a live audio chat on Thursday, October 30, 2 p.m. to 3:30 p.m. EDT at www.churchofchristscientist.org/csmonitor. The chat will be archived on the Church site and on www.spirituality.com for future listening.

All this information will be e-mailed to English-speaking members of The Mother Church this afternoon. Members in the United States and Canada will also receive the letter by regular mail.

With appreciation to you for your support of the Monitor,

Board of Trustees, The Christian Science Publishing Society
The Christian Science Board of Directors

Christian Scientist on Law & Order: SVU

Lia — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:26:36 GMT

Hi everyone,

I haven't posted here in a long time, but I thought I'd share something somewhat interesting. My husband (ex-CS) and I were watching [i]Law & Order: SVU[/i] last night, and the show featured a minor character who was a Christian Scientist. I won't get too into the details of the major plot, but suffice it to say that there's a family who doesn't believe HIV causes AIDS, and a young boy in that family wants to refuse medical care because he thinks that taking anti-retrovirals can kill a person.

The detective takes the young boy to the hospital to visit a child with brain cancer. The child explains that he (I think it was a boy--hard to tell because he was bald) was a Christian Scientist, so when he had headaches his parents would pray for him instead of taking him to the doctor. One time, at school, he asked a friend to take him to the hospital because he was afraid, and his parents were angry with him (he said because he was "dissing God.") He then finished by saying that his grandmother told him if God gave us doctors and ways to cure illnesses, wouldn't He want us to use them?

My husband and I did think that the "dissing God" thing was a little off...but we were interested that, for no particular reason, the writers decided to point out that this kid was a Christian Scientist (when other religions could have explained why the child didn't get medical care). This was a minor character and it was not necessary to name CS specifically, especially with the clear message that this child should be getting medical care (i.e. the religion is wrong)

Has anyone else seen any evidence of anti-CS in mainstream media?

The CS Hymnal & spiritualized lyrics

followingHim — Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:21:00 GMT

At the time of this thread's start, it is Christmas, and, in spite of the ACLU's efforts, Christmas carols are in the air. Sure, stores tend to use just instrumentals (less offensive), but I still hear the lyrics here and there. The authentic lyrics. I decided to check out the old CS hymnal, since I remember singing a few of them years ago.

I was astonished to find that there are just three of the traditional carols in it! "Joy to the World" (164,165,417), "It Came Upon a Midnight Clear" (158,159), and the great Boston divine, Philips Brooks' "O Little Town of Bethlehem" (224,225). Add to this meagre number, three CS-originated carols: "Angels At the Savior's Birth" (11), "Blest Christmas Morn" (23-28; six melodies!!), and "To Us a Childs of Hope Is Born" (362). Not much hymnody to beef up Advent, is it? A poster on another thread lamented "how little Christmas" there was in the CS church leading up to December 25. The hymnal appears to be a factor.

I received some e-correspondence from a party who was astonished at how "Holy,Holy,Holy" was altered in CS, so I decided to check out the three familiar carols. I wasn't too surprised at what I found: adulterated, "spiritualized" lyrics. Particularly problematic is the fact that because of the secularization of our culture, few people know the subsequent verses of these carols-many don't even know the first stanza, and just sort of humm along, joining in with only the most familiar lines and phrases!! Thus, many people will not be alert to the hatchet job done to these hymns in CS, since they "sound right." Consider what they did to "Little Town of Bethlehem:"

Stanza 1: identical in a Congregational and the CS hymnal. But consider stanza 2: [I had to use long elipses (.....) to separte the original (left) from the CS (right); otherwise the lines would collapse in on each other.]

Original..................................................................................CS

For Christ is born of Mary, and gathered all above.......................O morning stars together Proclaim the holy birth,
While mortals sleep, the angels keep Their watch of.love.............And praises sing to God the King, and peace to men on earth;
O morning stars, together, Proclaim the holy birth!.......................Where charity stands watching And faith holds wide the door,
And praises sing to God the King, and peace to men on earth.......The dark night wakes, the glory breaks, and Christmas comes once more.

The CS re-work seems to be a cut-and-paste job on the original, taking familiar phrases out of context and changing the original intent to conform to CS doctrine. For example, "the eternal Christ" in CS could not possibly co-mingle with human flesh, therefore, Christ was NOT born of Mary. Note how phrases from line 3 in the original show up as line 1!

Stanza 3 ("How silently, how silently...." identical in both.
Omitted is stanza 4 (my favorite)--

O holy Child of Bethlehem! Descend to us,we pray;
Cast out our sin, and enter in; Be born in us today.
We hear the Christmas angels The great glad tidings tell;
O come to us, abide with us, our Lord Emmanuel.

Also worth examining is Isaac Watts great hymn, "Joy to the World!"

Verse 1: the same in both.

Verse 2 ("Joy to the earth! The Savior reigns;...") is ommitted in CS.

Verse 3 (#2 in CS):

Traditional.................................................................................................CS
No more let sin and sorrow grow, Nor thorns infest the ground..................No more let sin, and sorrow grow, Nor thorns infest the ground,
He comes to make His blesings flow Far as the curse is found......................Wher'er he comes, his blessings flow, and hope and joy abound.

Note how CS uses a lower-case pronoun refering to Jesus Christ. And, of course, they are uncomfortable with the concept of a "curse."

Verse 4, the same as verse 3 in CS.

Well, I think I've got my point across. There are a lot of wonderful carols out there that CS would never touch. May I suggest that throughout the Christmas season, sing the carols, all the verses, and pay careful attention to the words. Share them with your CS family and friends! There's a lot of good doctrine and teaching in them! May I conclude with this meditation: the 2nd verse of "Hark! the Herald Angels Sing:"

Christ, by highest heav'n adored;
Christ, the everlasting Lord!
Late in time behold Him come,
Off-spring of the Virgin's womb:
Veiled in flesh the God-head see
Hail th'incarnate Deity,
Pleased as man with men to dwell,
Jesus our Emmanuel.

Self-reliance and CS

Linda — Fri, 23 Nov 2007 15:47:16 GMT

I am halfway through Clarence Thomas' book, [url=http://www.amazon.com/My-Grandfathers-Son-Clarence-Thomas/dp/0060565551/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195856576&sr=8-1]My Grandfather's Son: A Memoir[/url]. In his autobiography, Thomas walks the reader step by step through his life experiences, which are truly remarkable when viewed in light of the fact Thomas started out an illegitimate black child born into poverty in the deep South back when prejudice and segregation were truly a way of life -- and he ended up a Supreme Court Justice for the United States. What's so fascinating is that he takes the reader through his thinking process as he grows up full of rage, becomes invoved in the radical black movement, and finally turns into a conservative.

One theme I'm seeing as I read is that Thomas realizes that self-reliance, as opposed to reliance on things like quotas and government handouts, is an important key to overcoming poverty and social prejudice. It got me thinking about the self reliance I was taught in CS. I don't recall specifically being told to "rely on yourself" in CS, but I think that's the underlying message behind a mindset that guarantees success if one will only learn how to correctly apply a set of principles such as CS -- at the same time teaching a person to downplay and even live in denial of negative symptoms and circumstances in an attempt to demonstrate their nothingness. It's a fact that CSists are usually fairly successful people, and I have heard it argued that "it's easy to be CS when you're well off and naturally healthy." I agree with this, but I'm also wondering if the overall mindset of "self reliance" fostered by CS helps propel people to financial success.

Anyone have any thoughts on the subject?

Hymnal Supplement

Gentle Dove — Fri, 23 May 2008 14:32:24 GMT

Does anyone know anything about the new hymnal supplement? I wonder what new songs are included and if they are modern contemporary tunes, how much they had to "edit" it to "spiritualize" them. I can't believe they finally realized that after 100 plus years, they needed some fresh tunes!! The contemporary Christian tunes were so uplifting to me after leaving the church, I couldn't believe I had missed them all those years. I doubt they will use one of my favorites, "Shout to the Lord" because it begins with "My Jesus, my Savior, Lord there is none like You"... How different my life would have been if I could have been humming those lines for comfort instead of reading the vague nonsense in S&H , trying to tie it into the Bible and beating "Shepherd Show Me How to Go" to death.

The House of Cards... That Kills

Phoenix Rising — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:15:06 GMT

Last week, on another thread, (Principia> What about Principia?) an Anonymous poster wanted to convince us all that Christian Science does indeed heal and posted three links to www.spirituality.com , articles from the Christian Science Sentinel online. I went there to read the three testimonies and did find one rather substantive report but the other two ....???? Ill leave you to form your own opinion. One of these is copied below.

But first, my point. When my radical reliant CS friend died a few years ago, I was extremely angry with Christian Science, because I had seen it kill someone first hand. More specifically I was angry with all those who perpetuated the myth of healing, in all its ways and forms, the specific thing that I felt allowed this to happen. I thought back through the 45 years I had been around these people and thought of how they told and re-told stories of healings. I thought of the Wednesday night services and the testimonies there and of the articles in the periodicals. I also thought about all the non-healings I and my CS family had witnessed , and indeed this same friend had witnessed, and how these were NOT talked about. One thing that fascinated me, as person STEEPED in Materia Medica, was how many of these "healing" stories didnt really make sense to one who knows the human body and knows doctors and knows medicine. But it just goes right over their heads and they accept it as truth...ummmm Truth. For instance: My CS practitioner mother in law broke her leg. She got a cast on it and wore it for many weeks. But I remember when she got it off she made a point to all of us at the dinner table how her broken leg healed faster than the guy's who ran the store in town who broke his leg at the same time. He was still in a cast. (We all knew him as we shopped there all the time) While her CS family ate that up I was thinking that this was a MAN, 6'3" and my mother in law was 5' in heels. Not even considering where the break was, hers was low on the lower leg. There is a considerable difference in the leg bone of a very big MAN and a very small woman. But, Im sure her fast "healing" could have made an article in the Sentinel. In truth it was not proof of any kind of Christian Science healing. In the larger sense, its just one small section of a house of cards that was built over the course of decades, and that house of cards might just kill her son, my husband, long before his time. Because he ate it up and digested it and when the train was barreling down the track towards him (chest pain and shortness of breath) all he could think was... I am a perfect child of God, this is not going to hurt me, Ill get my healing like everyone else.

I still wonder why the Anonymous poster would consider the testimony below a "compelling" and "documented case" of a Christian Science healing of meningitis. (This is only part of the entire article which dealt mostly with the writers agitated mind.) But knowing Christian Scientists as I do its not surprising. In my opinion they just "believe" and dont think. They turn on the "mute" button when anything invades the sublime, and whenever a card is laid on they can only see the house get bigger and bigger. Here is a card for you!

My brother was in a coma.

I remember vividly the first time I really discovered this mental peace she wrote about. It was after a shattering telephone call. My mother was calling to say she had been notified that my brother, who was stationed at a military base, was in a coma from spinal meningitis.

Even though she assured me that a Christian Science Wartime Minister was praying for him, I was inconsolable. The fear was something I had never experienced, but it was to lead to my own true “discovery” of what this Science of the Christ is all about. As a student at a university, I was living in the home of a dedicated healer, a Christian Science practitioner, who, seeing my uncontrolled panic, quietly suggested that I turn to a passage in Science and Health, the textbook that all students of Christian Science study in relation to the Bible. This was at four o’clock on a Friday afternoon. The only thing I did right was to follow this suggestion and persist—even though the words seemed empty—and read with breathtaking speed over and over. And I mean over and over. I did not stop for the next 23 hours with my thoughts racing, the nagging incessant desire to call my mother every five minutes for an update and a feeling of utter hopelessness.

The Christ reached and reassured me.

And then it happened. I, too, could say in the words of Mrs. Eddy’s poem, “Christ My Refuge,” that the Christ reached me on the stormy sea and tenderly reassured me. Science and Health describes Christ as “the divine manifestation of God, which comes to the flesh to destroy incarnate error,” and as “the true idea voicing good, the divine message from God to men speaking to the human consciousness.” That Christ message spoke to me late on Saturday afternoon, when such a sweet sense of release just embraced me, and the turbulent, restless, relentless agony was gone. I knew at that point I could never again be engulfed in that turmoil and confusion. I was no longer even tempted to call for news about my brother. But it came three days later. He was completely healed, and all was well.

Perhaps what is most glaring is that there is no mention that the soldier was NOT under medical care, which I assume he must have been as there was a diagniosis of meningitis and coma. A diagnosis of meningitis requires a spinal tap...a difficult procedure. (I have known practitioners to diagnose coma as "sleeping" because they dont know how to tell the difference, especially over the phone) The daughter is hearing the story from the mother who is hearing the story from someone else overseas. There really is not one speck of information here which would lead a rational person to believe that this is a "compelling" "documented" Christian Science healing. It actually looks more like a medical healing. Would YOU bet your life on a testimony like this one? Would you stand on the track when the train was coming with this as evidence that the train wont hurt you?

Let's expand on this. This is a testimony from the Sentinel. I find it rather telling that this is all they can come up with. And what's almost laughable is that the person says "I knew I could never again be engulfed in that turmoil and confusion" yet the article goes on to tell of the future occasions when she struggled with the same problem.

Honestly, I would suggest that a thinking person would conclude from this article that Christian Science does NOT heal.... materia medica cured her brother and she continued to have mental anguish throughout her lifetime rather than being healed.

Square Peg

"The Weather"

birdstrike — Mon, 29 Jan 2007 00:24:17 GMT

This comes from my family's Christian Science library, which I inherited. I am retyping from old onionskin carbon copies that are dated from March 1959, when my grandmother was a C.S. practitioner. I don't know where they came from before that; if someone knows more about them please let me know!

Birdstrike

(begin)

THE WEATHER

"Now when there is the claim that the weather is sultry, handle it and you will see a breeze spring up; if it is cold, handle it; it is all in Mind ever the same, harmonious. God did not make sultry weather, etc; then if we through belief have made it, we must unmake it. When it looks like thunder and lightning, handle it; there is no sultry atmosphere to cause thunder and lightning. When I first came to Concord (before hypnotism and mesmerism joined hands to work upon me) there was no snow the first winter at all, and no thunderstorms the first year. When sultry, I would close my eyes for a moment, then open them and leaves would all be stirring; a breeze had sprung up. We make our own atmosphere. These things are easier to handle than sickness. I used to handle them until I forgot about it. Lately I have attended to the work and only kept above the effects. When Clara was here, I would speak about the thunderstorms and she would work alone, and they would all disappear. You can do this, and if you are not at first successful, do not get discouraged; keep on trying. When you have the first indication - - forestall it.

"When I have made a storm disappear, I did not argue, "there are no clouds." I said, God's face is there and I see it," and the storm would break and dissappear.

"Handle the weather just as you do any belief of mortal mind.

"You are not a Christian Scientist until you do control the weather."

(end)

What does "Class Taught" mean?

BC — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:13:43 GMT

Just a quick question - I often hear the term "class taught" as an indication of the level of involvement in CS. I should probably know what this means already as i was raised in CS and my mother was no doubt class taught. I'm thinking it is just a two week course? Thanks!
Brian

CS Children

Anonymous Today — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:28:22 GMT

Does anyone have an idea of how many CS children are trapped in the religion by their parents? (18 and younger)? Seems like the numbers trend, at least at college level Principia, is downhill. Any info on today's numbers and future trends?

Book: A Collision of Truths: A Life in Conflict with a Cherished Faith

Gentle Dove — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 17:56:23 GMT

Has anyone read A Collision of Truths: A Life in Conflict with a Cherished Faith by Robert Ellis? I just saw it today on Amazon.com. The author was raised a Christian Scientist.

Christian Science Military Ministry

Do_Go_Be_Man — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:23:39 GMT

Someone sent me an apparent press release that may be of historical interest. I'm passing it along as a courtesy to those who may find it interesting. You might recall the book, [i]The Story of Christian Science Wartime Activities 1939-1946[/i]. From my reading of the release, the new book appears to expand the scope of the earlier book.

Do Go Be Man
<><

[quote]New Book Explores Little-Known Aspect of Christian Science Ministry

Often overlooked in the exploration of the history of the Christian Science church is its unique healing ministry to those in the armed forces. In his extensive new book, Christian Science Military Ministry 1917–2004, author and former Christian Science Army chaplain, Kim M. Schuette, carefully explores this topic.

The 670-page, fully indexed book is packed with inspirational, informative accounts of reliance on God for guidance and deliverance for service members and their families, both in peacetime and in combat situations from World War I through Vietnam and Desert Storm. Also related are scores of healings, accomplished through prayer, of mental and physical challenges, injuries and illnesses, accounts of crises averted, immorality healed, and lives restored. Schuette addresses the religious discrimination faced by Christian Scientists and relates prayerful approaches to overcoming it. The pioneering role of Christian Science women in the military chaplaincy is also recounted.

The author writes, “The setting of this ministry includes human life in extraordinary circumstances: danger, filth, passion, sickness, sin, deep-lying prejudice, and discrimination, as well as the joys of redemption, Christian fellowship, and spiritual healing. The heart of Christianity beat strongly.”

Researched and written over a ten-year period, it includes over sixty interviews with chaplain alumni, church members designated as Christian Science Ministers and Representatives, spouses, church officials and colleagues of other denominations also serving in the armed forces. Their stories illustrate the vigilance needed, the sacrifices demanded and the rewards resulting from standing for and fulfilling the constitutional provisions for the free-exercise of religion.

The book has a much wider audience than church members. It will be useful to the world of scholars interested in this little known aspect of the church’s outreach and impact; to church leaders interested in ministry in challenging and diverse environments; to those training chaplains to represent their own denominations; even to military leaders and policy makers interested in understanding the stance of Christian Science adherents. Careful not to teach the theology of Christian Science, its purpose is to show the effects of the application of its teachings.[/quote]

Annual Meeting 2008: Simplicity?

Do_Go_Be_Man — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 21:25:41 GMT

I just finished watching the archived webcast of today's Annual Meeting. It's late and I still have much to do tonight, but thought I'd share some notes:

The President of The Mother Church opened the meeting with readings from the Bible and writings of Mary Baker Eddy to introduce the theme of Simplicity:

Colossians 2:27 [i]Christ[/i]
Colossians 1:3, 10
2 Corinthians 11:3, 58
Colossians 2:27 [i]Christ[/i]
S&H 333:19-23
Ret 94:25-95:13

I plan to go back later to read the chunks of the Bible he skipped. Seemed too simple to me.

He then introduced the officers of the church:

Pastor Emeritus Mary Baker Eddy (the camera did not cut to her)
The Board of Directors of The First Church of Christ, Scientist
Treasurer of The Mother Church
First and Second Readers of The Mother Church
Outgoing President of The Mother Church

Following a video presentation by the Board taped in Sao Paulo, Brazil, the Treasurer presented his report:

Funds on hand: $496,000,000
Debt: $0
Expenditures in the last year: $113,000,000
General Fund: $165,000,000 (up $19,000,000 from last year due to increased emphasis by the Board on savings and cutting expenses)

No real comments other than it was the first Annual Meeting webcast I've listened to all the way through.

Could someone please explain to me again how I stayed in it for more than 30 years? I know I don't understand.

Do Go Be Man
<><

www.spirituality.com

Anonymous — Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:50:32 GMT

I've been looking at this site. It's CS connection isn't too clear besides selling the book "Science & Health" and maintaining discussions around it. It looks like a new age camouflage. Any thoughts?

/TJ

What about the Mother Church edifice?

followingHim — Thu, 22 May 2008 16:34:54 GMT

The decline and impending demise of Christian Science is an issue that shows up in various threads. This usually focuses on the fate of various branch churches, and sometimes extends into consideration of the CS "Movement." And we know that the corporate Mother Church has retrenched by cutting staff drastically, and consolidating administration in the old "Publishing Society" building, ("One Norway Street"). This makes the high rise "Admin Building" (175 Huntington Ave) and "the Colonnade" (Belvedere Street) available for lucrative rental income.

I have long opined that CS will devolve into a confusing, but highly remunerative, mish-mash of trusts, foundations, "institutes," and various "non-profits" which will provide generous income and assets to a small group of well-placed, even cynically eploitive, higher-ups. They will "keep the embers of CS aglow," comfortably warmed by all sorts of financial instruments. Turning the I.M. Pei buildings into money-makers is a significant step in this program.

But what about the Back Bay* real estate? At a certain point, even a scattered handful of loyal elders will be uncomfortable meeting in the granite "Original Edifice!"

What will become of TMC's home church buildings--the "Original Edifice" of the Mother Church and the (domed) "Extension to the Mother Church?" Elsewhere, Menderfire9 remarked [quote] I hope they turn it into a genuine healing center or Department of Peace or something like that.....[/quote], while Do-Go-Be-Man wistfully mused, [quote] I've prayed that TMC would come to renounce apostasy in the manner that the Worldwide Church of God did after the passing of Herbert Armstrong.[/quote]

They are architecturally significant, and are not likely to be torn down for anything. And they are not suitable for conversion to some other purpose.**

What would you like to see become of these combined buildings?

Who/what would be an appropriate successor owner?

What do you think is likely to actually happen to them?

And when?

*The Church Center, known by some wags as "the little vatican," is actually at the juncture of the Back Bay, the South End, and the East Fenway

**Lenin had a penchant for turning churches--cathedrals, even!--into warehouses and military depots.

Mary Baker Eddy Institute

Spring — Mon, 09 May 2005 09:07:29 GMT

Just came accross a website from a "Mary Baker Eddy Institute" (http://www.mbeinstitute.org/index2.html), by a Helen Wright. Has online versions of S&H and all other MBE writings and church manual. In looking at it briefly, it appears to be in opposition to TMC because of "breaches of the church manual", and wants to go back to the CS MBE found. Has nothing of the "new age like" appearance of spirituality.com, and appears to be very well designed. Might feel attracted to it if I didn't know it better by now.

Marion

CSists lobby for "spiritual-care" coverage in MA

Linda — Fri, 09 May 2008 20:46:47 GMT

According to an article by Mark Hollmer in the Boston Business Journal, the CS Church is lobbying for "spiritual care" to be an insurance-covered option under a new Massachusetts law mandating health insurance coverage. Here's a link to the May 9, 2008 article, "Christian Scientists lobby for spiritual-care coverage." www.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2008/05/12/story6.html

The article makes the following statement: "State Rep. Byron Rushing, the House assistant-majority whip and an active Episcopalian, said there is room for the measure, as long as people who pursue spiritual care don't subsequently seek free medical care in hospitals."

CS Churches Closing - Why?

Prin Upper School and College Alum — Sun, 21 Oct 2007 12:50:53 GMT

So this may be an obvious question - but I''m interested in hearing thoughts. Where I live - 6 CS churches have closed in 10 years. I drove by the downtown one the other day and it's now in a one room space in a strip mall. It was in a huge very old historical building. I was in "Asher House" which I drove by and the house is being gutted so that sold as well.

Seems many traditional churches are going empty in favor of more modern churches no matter what the message is. I attended one when I graduated from Prin.

What is not attractive about CS or other traditional religions? Is it a common denomitor? Even the Methodist church nearby has very few people.

CS Marketing

Do_Go_Be_Man — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 09:21:59 GMT

I was just on The Smoking Gun web site (www.thesmokinggun.com) because of a link from a news story. Out of curiosity, I searched the site for "Christian Science". No hits, but it did surprisingly result in quite a few sponsored links (links deleted):

[li]Christian Science Today: Largest collection of early & contemporary writings on CS[/li]
[li]Christian Science Healing: Miles Harbur CS Spirit-mind-body Practitioner/Healer[/li]
[li]Christian Science: Learn more about this religion and its founder Mary Baker Eddy[/li]
[li]Christian Science website: Christian Science links, discussion directories, articles, marketplace[/li]
[li]Christian Science & Media: Media Resources for Journalists First Church of Christ, Scientist[/li]
[li]Christian Science Healing: Spiritual Solutions to Life's Challenges[/li]
[li]Christian Science Ideas: Thought Provoking and Profound Book Based On The Principles Of CS[/li]

Nothing earthshaking, just an observation on a slow Autumn afternoon.

Do Go Be Man
<><

Off-topic posts from "Self-reliance and CS" thread

Linda — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 07:21:59 GMT

At the suggestion of a forum participant, the following posts have been moved from the thread entitled Self-reliance and CS. I'm moving them here since they detract from that thread.

[b]Anonymous post #14171, 11:01 AM, 11-25-07[/b]

I really resent the implication in another post by DGBM and Linda that Thanksgiving is celebrated only by Christians and then to read your implication that the Christians were in Concentration Camps. Do you not know what the Holocaust was all about? It was about Chrisitians who think that they have a secret knowledge and they have their own god and therefore they are superior to others. Therefore it was okay for a Christian to tell a nation that it is okay to kill heretics like the Jews. Fellow Christians had no problem taking this lie that the down fall of economic and social issues were the fault of the Jews; and spreading it across Europe. I had friends and friends of family who survived the Concentration Camps and they did so by always praising God and knowing that He will deliver them, because the Jews are God's chosen people. They know that no matter how many web sites and lies are told against them that God and God alone will deliver them. It is so obvious that the people at christianway think that people who do not think exactly like they do are idiots and I guess are not going to the Promise land. And yes I believe that Hitler was realated to Mary Baker and she is the real cause of the Nazi Party. I throw this in, because I know that if I don't say something bad about Christian Science that you will not publish my replies.

[b]Do Go Be Man's post #14172, 11-25-07, 2:10 PM [/b]

Anonymous Posted November 25, 2007 @ 1:01:33 PM,

If you want to go slogging through a swamp, I recommend you find a map or a guide. As co-moderator, I considered not approving your post and probably shouldn't have as it has nothing to do with the scope of these forums.

As a Christian who holds my Jewish roots in high respect, however, I feel compelled to respond. That does not mean that I intend to engage this topic further unless in response to private messages or e-mail (just remember, however, it's not possible to respond to a private message unless you posted it as a logged in, registered contributor).

Implying our Thanksgiving wishes were somehow anti-Semitic is quite a reach, as is your presumably saracastic assertion regarding the relationship of MBE and Hitler. Feel free to say anything positive about CS you care to contribute. Such comments would be within the scope of these forums along with the discussion such comments may generate.

Never Forget! You are not alone in knowing Survivors. The memory of my teachers' tattoos on their arms as they stretched to write on blackboards is forever seared in my mind. Sitting in a Miami Beach coffee shop at midnight listening to a waitress tell her story burns my heart - "I knew Mengele", she said quietly as she began to tell of her personal hell and the loss of her family, witnessing the torture of her sister.

I am quite aware of what the Holocaust was about. It was about hate, greed, mental sickness of the worst sort, and the political need of the Nazis to gain power upon the backs and suffering of others. They indicted a whole race of people and those who otherwise failed to agree with their distorted standards.

Many deny or are ignorant of the truth of the Holocaust. Hitler killed more than 12 million including half of which were Jewish. His victims otherwise included a wide range such as Gypsies, Communists, homosexuals, the mentally challenged, and quite a few Christians such as priests, nuns, and likely some CSists.

I've mentioned from time to time on these forums my respect for Jews and how it was the positive witness of Jews more than the witness of Christians which led me to Jesus Christ. The Jews with whom I associated were not merely cultural Jews. They were committed, Orthodox Jews. Many of them were quite radical in their beliefs and practices (most were considered too radical for the Jewish Defense League, itself a more than moderately radical organization). Even the most radical of my friends never attributed the Holocaust to Christians. They, in fact, taught me about the other Holocaust so many deny.

First they came… (a poem attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller)
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.
(as inscribed at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum)

Do Go Be Man
<><

[b]Linda's, post #14173, 11-25-07, 3:32 PM[/b]

I really resent the implication in another post by DGBM and Linda that Thanksgiving is celebrated only by Christians

Anonymous,

Do Go Be Man was generous in allowing your post. Since he did, I'll make a few comments:

1) If you're going to make an accusation, please do us the courtesy of referencing the post to which you are referring. I have NO IDEA what post you're talking about. (I am also SURE that you misinterpreted what we were saying, but that's beside my point.)

2) If you're going to comment on a post, please do so in the thread in which the post is located. It's rude to break into another thread with a comment that is certainly off-topic.

3) Whatever insanity went on in Europe in the 1940's -- have you noticed that Christians who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible tend to SUPPORT Isreal? Every "Bible believing" Christian I know understands that Jesus was a Jew and recognizes that the Jews are God's chosen people. You can ignore that if you like and mistinterpret everything we say, but please pick your "Christians hate Jews" fights elsewhere -- they are based in fantasy and don't belong on these forums.

Crosses in CS churches

Linda — Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:40:55 GMT

A discussion recently developed on the "Death on the Cross" thread regarding why crosses are seen so rarely in CS churches and homes, and why CSists genereally don't wear crosses as jewlery (e.g., on chains as necklaces). I thought it might be interesting to get some answers directly from The Mother Church, so I went to the official CS Web site (tfccs.org) and asked the question. My question was forwarded to the Research Room of The Mary Baker Eddy Library for the Betterment of Humanity, and I received a response after a week or so.

Before I tell you what the MBE Library representative told me, let me give you my perspective from 30 years in the religion (1955-1985), including 4 years at a CS college where I saw a cross-section (no pun intended) of CSists from all over the country.

I never recall seeing a Christian Scientist (except for Mrs. Eddy) wear a cross. We did, however, wear jewlery bearing the CS "cross and crown" as seen on the front of Science and Health and other authorized CS literature. I never recall seeing a cross displayed in a CS church.

The cross is not forbidden in the CS Church, but my understanding is that CSists look beyond the cross -- to Jesus' demonstration over what is represented by the cross. While most Christians pay a lot of attention to Jesus' sacrificial death on the cross as well as his resurrection, CSists believe that Jesus demonstrated over what the cross represents -- sin and death. So having a cross in a CS church, or wearing a cross on a necklace, would represent uninspired Christianity. The cross-and-crown represents the more "spiritually advanced" focus of CS on victory over death and the belief in materiality.

A good example of how CSists focus on the resurrection rather than the cross can be seen in the CS hymn sung on Easter Sundays. Hymn 171 starts out, "Let us sing of Easter gladness That rejoices every day. . . ." and ends with "Every day will be an Easter Filled with benedictions new" (emphesis added). CSists don't pay much attention to Easter as an event, the way most Christian churches do.

I looked in Mrs. Eddy's writings for clues regarding her adoption of the cross-and-crown symbol and found a couple that seem pertinent:

"Christian Science is not only the acme of Science but the crown of Christianity." Miscellaneous Writings 252:17-18.

"This church, born in my nativity, may it build upon the rock of ages against which the waves and winds beat in vain. May the towering top of its goodly temple -- burdened with beauty, pointing to the heavens, bursting into the rapture of song -- long call the worshipper to seek the haven of hope, the heaven of Soul, the sweet sense of angelic song chiming chaste challenge to praise him who won the way and taught mankind to win through meekness to might, goodness to grandeur, -- from cross to crown, from sense to Soul, from gleam to glory, from matter to Spirit" (emphasis added). Miscellany 162:29 - 163:7. (Sorry for the long quote; it was just too juicy not to quote in its entirety!)

By the way, the cross-and-crown symbol did not originate with CS (I've seen it in other denomintaional churches), but Mrs. Eddy incorporated it (rather than just a cross) into the official symbol of CS (the cross-and-crown, circled by the words, "heal the sick - raise the dead - cast out demons - cleanse the lepers). I think this seal, as much as anything else I've said, encourages CSists to value the cross-and-crown symbol over the cross.

Now -- after that long introduction -- allow me to share the incredibly insightful information I received from the Research Room of The Mary Baker Eddy Library for the Betterment of Humanity.

The Researcher responded to my questions as follows:

"1. You asked why there aren't crosses in Christian Science churches. This is an incorrect assumption, as I know of Christian Science churches that incorporate crosses in their decor (e.g. in stained glass windows). Furthermore, we have never located any statement by Mary Baker Eddy, the Founder of the Christian Science, that would prohibit Christian Science churches from having crosses in their edifices if they desire to do so.

2. You asked why Christian Scientists don't generally wear crosses as jewelry. We are not aware that this is the case, and have no way of determining how many Christian Scientists might or might not wear crosses as jewelry. And once again, we have not located any statement by Mrs. Eddy prohibiting the wearing of crosses.

3. The cross and crown symbol has been widely used over the years by Christians, both Catholic and Protestant, so it is not unique to Christian Science. We have not located any document by Mrs. Eddy that offers an explanation of this symbol or why she chose it as a symbol of Christian Science.

Please let us know if we can be of further assistance. We're always happy to answer historical questions about Mary Baker Eddy and the history of Christian Science."

Wow -- does this strike you as having been written by someone who is either unfamiliar with CS culture or is trying very hard to be completely noncommittal on the issue? I laughed when I read this incredibly wooden answer.

Anyway, I hope the Mary Baker Eddy Library for the Betterment of Humanity and I have shed some light on the issue of crosses in CS churches!

Acquisition of wealth/The ideal CSist

Lia — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:40:46 GMT

Hi everyone,

Recently someone (I think Do Go Be Man?) posted a response that mentioned CSists and their acquisition of wealth, even though they don't believe the material world exists. This got me thinking, because since I started meeting CS families in high school (when I met my future fiance, who isn't CS anymore) I've noticed that many of them are very well-to-do.

I studied some philosophy when I was an undergraduate, and often we would talk about "the ideal life" according to various belief systems. I've read Science & Health and some of Mary Baker Eddy's other writings, and to me the ideal CSist would have as little connection to the concerns of the material world as possible. Why would a CSist want to have money, a nice house, and other material luxuries when they don't exist? My very limited study of Christian Science leads me to think that the ideal CS life would be in some sort of community of like-minded people devoted to studying CS and relying on the material world as little as possible. I know in real life this is nearly impossible, but most people don't follow the "ideal life" according to their belief system; that doesn't make it useless to discuss it.

Is there anything in Science & Health or other CS literature that talks about material gain? Is there any sort of feeling among CSists that wealthy church members shouldn't need so much money? Also, how do you think the ideal CSist lives (assuming he or she is still working toward a complete understanding of God)?

CS Monitor Circulation Drops Again

Anonymous — Tue, 08 Nov 2005 09:49:14 GMT

Hi, friends:

The circulation numbers for the six-month period ended Sept. 30, 2005,
are in for the CS Monitor.

It's not a pretty picture, to say the least. The drop of almost 6,000
daily sales means a 10.1% drop in just six months.

Sept. 30, 2005: 53,203

March 31, 2005: 59,179

Sept. 30, 2004: 60,723

March 31, 2004: 69,170

Sept. 30, 2003: 71,146

March 31, 2003: 75,639

Sept. 30, 2002: 74,814

March 31, 2002: 77,665

Sept. 30, 2001: 68,491

March 31, 2001: 71,482

Sept. 30, 2000: 65,277

-----

Stop the presses?
Percentage change in CSM circulation over select periods:

Since March 2005: -10.1%

Since Sept. 2004: -12.4

Since March 2004: -23.1

Since Sept. 2003: -25.2

Since March 2003: -29.7

Since Sept. 2002: -28.9

Since March 2002: -31.5 (CSM's circulation high point since Sept. 2000)

Since Sept. 2001: -22.3

Since March 2001: -25.6

Since Sept. 2000: -18.5

-----

RisRap

At 88 Dad Feels Abandoned by CS

Anonymous — Wed, 04 Jan 2006 22:26:45 GMT

I never was a CS and never will be, but for my dad, it's all he's known. Now at 88, he's living alone in another state to be near my mom who is in a nursing home (she's not a CS) and is having a hard time coping. He now realizes that he has believed in a fool's religion. He's having a spiritual meltdown which I can't really help him with as I'm not religious.

I'm not really sure what to do. He's in pretty bad shape. His CS practitioner gave up on him which precipitated the crisis. He's not suicidal, but he can't eat and is very anxious and depressed. He won't come stay with me as he won't leave my mom.

I don't know whether to bring him to the Emergency Room or what to do. I've hired someone to be with him each day. I'm disabled and can't easily get to him and there are no other family members.

What would you do in my situation? Thanks.

MBE's lesson on heart of stone & heart of flesh (Ezek. 11:19 & 36:26)

Anonymous — Sun, 27 Feb 2005 14:05:03 GMT

Clara Shannon, who worked in Mrs. Eddy's household in Concord, NH, gave, in her reminiscences, this account of instruction by Mrs. Eddy to members of the staff:

"She [Mrs. Eddy] showed us that a stony heart was a heart hardened by materialism and lack of sympathy; lack of love and compassion; that was a stony heart, and we must look to God for deliverance, and pray that He take away that heart and give us a heart of flesh, which is a tender, loving heart, unselfish, full of sympathy, loving kindness and compassion - that is a heart of love seeing one another's need and supplying it..."

Practitioners Advertising?

Do_Go_Be_Man — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 12:18:24 GMT

While searching [url=http://www.thesmokinggun.com]The Smoking Gun[/url] web site for "Christian Science", I was surprised to see the following sponsored web links:

Christian Science Healing
Through the power of God's love
David G. Shields CS (626) 345-0681
www.davidgshields.com

Christian Science works
Entirely spiritual method to heal
any problem, based on prayer
LBMatthews.com

Christian Science Healing
Miles Harbur CS
Spirit-mind-bodyPractitioner/Healer
www.MilesHarbur.com

Does anyone know if these people are CS Journal-listed? Are CS practitioners now allowed to advertise their services or have they always been allowed to do so?

Shields and Matthews appear enough web-savvy to advertise on misdirect sites like Csmonior.com, www.cmsonitor.com, and www.csonitor.com. I think I recall their links being deleted from various CS-related articles on [url=http://www.wikipedia.org]Wikipedia[/url].

Do Go Be Man
<><

A Story I Would Like To Share

jesusmyhealer — Fri, 27 Jul 2007 04:34:42 GMT

I went to a CS lecture or whatever you wana call it one night coz my mum forced me and plus I was interested to meet other CSist she had been hanging around with. I wanted to meet face to face the people that corrupted my mother and destroyed our family.

To cut a long story short, to my amazement the CS lecturer wore sight glasses and suffered from some sort of disease whereby he "shook" now I'm no expert or doctor but he obviously had something which makes you shake.

He kept hiding his arms behind his back through the entire lecture, poor bloke was obviously embarrassed or didnt want us to see his problem.

So I thought to myself "very strange, a CSist who wears glasses and has a shaking disorder". I thought that all CS believe there is no disease, illness that all is perfect etc. etc.

So at the end of the lecture I approached 3 different CSist and asked them why.

The answer from them all was so pathetic that I cannot even be bothered typing it however, not one of them gave me a serious, mature response.

Oh I have to tell you what one said to me "Don't get too close to me dear I have a cold".

That was the icing on the cake.

PS. I hope a current CSist is reading this coz I would love a legit answer regarding this man. Why is he not cured?

An Imposition

Do_Go_Be_Man — Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:34:41 GMT

The following message was sent to me and others connected with The Christian Way. It may interest other contributors to the forums.

Do Go Be Man
<><

-----

You may recall [i]that The Manual of the Mother Church[/i] refers to any attack on CS as an "imposition." This rather forceful "imposition" aired on a California radio station last week. I commend to you taking a few minutes to listen to it.

[ORIGINAL RECIPIENT]

-----

[ORIGINAL RECIPIENT]

You can listen to CJ Hyatt's program on injuries to Christian Science children by going to this URL

[url]http://www.capradio.org/programs/insight/default.aspx[/url]

Then at the left on Recent Shows click on June 14 and then click on Listen at the lower left of the new screen.

Rita Swan
[url=http://www.childrenshealthcare.org/]CHILD Inc.[/url]

This post will be deleted

thessalonian — Thu, 24 May 2007 05:46:14 GMT

Because the mods are censor police. They don't wan't any indirect comments at all in a thread. Of course they edit out anything about Catholicism these days.

I'm outta here and this board will die a slow death because of censorship. It's a dead board as it is. 1 post a week is about it.

If you want to talk go to www.phatmass.com. You will find me there, where they don't censor everything. Bye and God bless.