The Christian Way Forums / The Christian Way Forums / Social Issues Relevant to CS and Christianity in General

Mother Eddy, Funerals, Reasons for Posting, and Other Stuff That Didn't Belong in the Haiti Thread

Do_Go_Be_Man — Mon, 25 Jan 2010 20:15:33 GMT

We had some good discussion going on in the Haiti thread, but got way off topic. This thread is for continuing that discussion.

Do Go Be Man
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Manhattan Declaration

Do_Go_Be_Man — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 20:51:18 GMT

As I hope all can envision, I tend to be somewhat "radical" in my Christian practices and beliefs away from these forums as well. I've just signed the [url=www.manhattandeclaration.org]Manhattan Declaration[/url]. It's a call to follow Christian conscience regardless of the [url=http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2014:25-33&version=ESV]cost[/url]. I know there are those who are or would be offended by this declaration. For that, I make no apologies. I pray, however, that you can respect our right to believe and exercise our freedom of expression of religion. If "radical" Christian expressions of conscience offend you, this would be a good spot to move on to another topic.

Do Go Be Man
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The following represents an introduction to the declaration created from a press release and other web material for those who may be interested:

On November 20, 2009, a group of prominent Christian clergy, ministry leaders and scholars released the Manhattan Declaration, which addresses the sanctity of life, traditional marriage and religious liberty. The 4,700-word declaration issues a clarion call to Christians to adhere to their convictions and informs civil authorities that the signers will not-under any circumstance-abandon their Christian consciences.

Christians, when they have lived up to the highest ideals of their faith, have defended the weak and vulnerable and worked tirelessly to protect and strengthen vital institutions of civil society, beginning with the family.

We are Orthodox, Catholic, and evangelical Christians who have united at this hour to reaffirm fundamental truths about justice and the common good, and to call upon our fellow citizens, believers and non-believers alike, to join us in defending them. These truths are:
[ul][li]the sanctity of human life[/li]
[li]the dignity of marriage as the conjugal union of husband and wife[/li]
[li]the rights of conscience and religious liberty.[/li][/ul]
Inasmuch as these truths are foundational to human dignity and the well-being of society, they are inviolable and non-negotiable. Because they are increasingly under assault from powerful forces in our culture, we are compelled today to speak out forcefully in their defense, and to commit ourselves to honoring them fully no matter what pressures are brought upon us and our institutions to abandon or compromise them. We make this commitment not as partisans of any political group but as followers of Jesus Christ, the crucified and risen Lord, who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

For more information, please visit [url=www.manhattandeclaration.org]www.manhattandeclaration.org[/url]. If you chose to sign the declaration, I would be interested to hear about that either as a response to this topic or by private message.

Elder Abuse Similar to the Child Cases?

Gentle Dove — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:28:08 GMT

I was wondering if the deaths of elderly Christian Scientists who may have lost their capacity to make decisions for themselves are similarly situated to the minor children who have suffered under Christian Science. I have an elderly grandmother who is obviously suffering from dementia but is having medical treatment withheld from her because the family feels that is what she would have wanted. However, she needs HELP and some relief. She is like a child and cannot remember anything anyway. I feel like the compassionate thing to do is to seek medical treatment for her which is against the family's wishes. A guardianship is out of the question because the person who is appointed under her legal papers to be her guardian in the event of incapacity is a CS. Contesting would cause a huge stink and may last longer than my grandmother has to live. Anyway, I would welcome any ideas on this topic. All of the press seems to be focused on the child cases (as it should) but it seems important to protect the elderly as well.

Should Women submit to their husband?

Anonymous — Tue, 30 May 2006 13:39:35 GMT

The following is a comment by Do_Go_Be_Man in another forum that I would like to see more feedback from:

women must submit to their husbands (the heads of their households).

This is my response back to him:

I think you definitely have a very conservative view when it comes to women. I think that most conservative women would even argue with you on your stance that a woman should submit to her husband. Or that a woman cannot hold high positions in the church. I would like to see this debated in another thread actually, because I think that issue may get many comments. I know many conservative men that have even given in on that issue and do not hold your view. I bet you get a lot of protest when you admit your view on that one.

I am curious on everyone's view on this. I assumed that even most conservatives did not believe this anymore. Maybe I am wrong. I am especially interested in female conservative's view. So anyone, please let your view be know here in this new thread.

Liberal Christian

Wisconsin Parents Get Probation Plus Jail in Daughter's Prayer Death

Mere Kat — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 15:41:22 GMT

[quote]Any thoughts on the ruling in Wisconsin (parents found guilty after prayer only based death of their daughter)? Poll with article shows overwhelming public support on the ruling. [/quote]

An 11-year-old girl died of complications from undiagnosed diabetes on the floor of her home while her parents and people around her prayed. The parents were convicted of second-degree reckless homicide in the death of their daughter. They were given a very light sentence: just 10 years probation and 30 days a year in jail for the next six years.

While these "parents" are not Christian Scientists, the statements they made trying to defend their actions (or lack thereof) sound very CS-like.

The girl's mother said:

"I do not regret trusting truly in the Lord for my daughter's health," she said. "Did we know she had a fatal illness? No. Did we act to the best of our knowledge? Yes."

And her father, said in his testimony:

"If I go to the doctor, I am putting the doctor before God," ... "I am not believing what he said he would do."

I don't see any remorse in those statements, and more frightening, it suggests they still believe their "treatment" of their 11-year old child was proper. Except for the court-imposed requirement for medical care for their remaining three children, it very much looks like they would sacrifice the rest of the family if given the opportunity.

More proof of their misguided intentions and self-righteous: They plan to appeal the conviction because state law is not clear on the issue of spiritual treatment. Given they could have been sentenced to 25 years in prison, and their total lack of repentance, I think they got off way too easily.

Health care bill to cover CS treatments

Elbee — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 17:41:09 GMT

http://ffrf.org/action/2009/spiritualhealthcarebills.php

Apparently the new health care bill will be promoting and subsidizing faith based treatments. The above link gives more information and also includes how you can help try to stop this from happening.

CNN article

Elbee — Wed, 27 May 2009 12:31:00 GMT

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/05/27/parents.medical.custody/index.html

The recent incident over the boy whos parents refused chemotherapy seems to have sparked public interest in parental rights regarding religious exemption to medical treatment.

Fatherhood

Seeker — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:43:31 GMT

Hello,

I am cherishing the concept of Fatherhood today. This came about because in the past two years my own father died, and I lost several friends who were fathers as well. My best friend just lost her Dad and I have been thinking about fathers a lot lately.

It seems that in today's society fathers often get the short end of the stick. I have enjoyed reading all the wonderful stories in the Bible that show true fatherhood, or give guidance to fathers. Even Jesus demonstrated many loving fatherlike qualities. It's no wonder children were drawn to him!

The Christmas story is not just about the birth of Jesus, it's also the story about a man who became a father. A father who humbly took on his responsibilty to provide for his family, obediently followed God's direction, and helped to give the world an amazing gift.

This is sounding kind of hokey now that I'm trying to articulate it. Basically, I am grateful for all the good fathers out there, including my husband. Inspite of what the news tries to convince us of, fathers (biological or figurative) are pretty great and children everywhere deserve to have that loving influence in their lives.

Inherit the Wind (Evolution)

Do_Go_Be_Man — Sat, 05 Feb 2005 13:10:24 GMT

In case anyone would like to pick up on the mention of evolution in the "Getting past hatred, getting on with life" thread, here's a place to do it.

From the "Getting past hatred, getting on with life" thread:

Do_Go_Be_Man Saturday, February 05, 2005 11:03 AM

Broncho,

These are all normal feelings. We were designed through evolution to have these feelings . . .

I agree that feelings are normal, but want to head off the "designed through evolution" issue. I'm probably not alone here in discounting evolution in favor of God's design . . .

Gail Saturday, February 05, 2005 11:57 AM

In all respect to Do-Go- I really don't feel that this thread ("Getting past hatred, getting on with life") is the proper place to start on the Evolution /God's design discussion.

Do Go Be Man
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Christian Science Teacher disciplined by The Christian Science Board of Directors

Anonymous — Sat, 26 Jun 2004 10:32:36 GMT

A Christian Science Teacher who is a lesbian and recently went to Massachusetts to marry her partner, was disciplined by The Christian Science Board of Directors:

http://www.news-press.com/news/cape/040624lesbian.html

It is my understanding that in recent years, gay Christian Scientists have felt that the Board of Directors had become welcoming and more supportive of gay students of Christian Science. But at the same time there were rumors of increasing protest from those Christian Scientists who felt that homosexuality was not something to be tolerated or encouraged among Christian Scientists.

Now gay Christian Scientists appear to be feeling that the Board of Directors has suddenly changed course and a great deal of progress has been undone.

Charity. Too "Material"?

Green Pastures — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 15:46:35 GMT

I am new to the forums, and have really been interested to read the posts of my peers, the lapsed.

I was born and raised in CS, and although I left in my twenties, somewhat bitter (for reasons that do not relate to this topic), now that I am in my thirties, I kind of miss it, and find myself often thinking of CS doctrine when I am upset or ill. I don't think I will ever fully accept it the way I was raised or be a "fanatic" again, but I do find parts of it to be comforting sometimes.

I have considered re-joining the church, BUT... I am really saddened that the church does not participate in any charity causes and find it really sad. I work for a non-profit charity and we coordinate all sorts of religious groups to donate money or lend a hand for causes in our community (like book and coat drives) or around the world (like Darfur). Charity is a huge art of my life and I want a religion that participates in the healing of the world by meeting the physical needs of people who are suffering.

An example: my dad's CS church is located in a suburb, on the same street as a Catholic, Unitarian and Episcopal church. A few years ago all the churches got together to have an event, raising money for something (I forget the specifics) in the town. They invited the CS branch to be involved, but they had to decline. My dad and a bunch of others participated "as individuals" but not as a church...

I would love to find a place to go on Sundays where I can find a community of people who do good in the world, but also has some of the same doctrine as CS. I heard the Congregational Church (MBE's church before discovering CS) might be my best match, but I would love to hear from ex-CSers, their opinion.

Christian discipleship and popular culture

followingHim — Wed, 18 Jan 2006 20:28:43 GMT

In this thread, I hope members can discuss how we, as Christians, can practice discernment and keep our Christian priorities straight. God calls us to live in the world, yet not be of it--an increasingly precarious act in a world where mass media--the entertainment industry, especially--is powerful and pervasive.

What prompted me to start this thread is what I have recently learned about the film, "End of the Spear," which purports to tell the story of John Elliot and his fellowed martyred missionaries, felled by the Waodoni tribesmen in Juanuary, 1956. What we have here is a secular production company which has--to say the least--watered down Christian content to make the film more palatable to a secular audience.

Apparently, Jesus Christ and a salvation message are not mentioned; the five men who died are presented more as altruists, and not missionaries with a burden for the lost. The thematic aperture is wide enough for just about any religionist to feel comfortable.

Yet at the same time, it is being marketed aggressively to Christian audiences as an evangelistic vehicle!

And if this is not enough, they recruited a gay actor, Chad Allen, to play one of the fallen Christian men, Nathan Saint. This man is highly active in promoting the homosexual cause in the entertainment world, and has stated that he sees his use of this role as a means to make homosexuality more acceptable to Christians.

Those interested in pursuing the film's treatment further can read a rather lengthy posting on the blog, Sharper Iron. A long, more orthodox history of Jim Elliot and his band can be found at Plymouth Brethren.org

My purpose here is not to drag out--here--the issue of whether homosexuality can be reconciled with Christian discipleship. It can't, but for those who want to, there are dedicated threads in this category. The point here is,

To what extent to we keep secular trends--such as acceptance of homosexuality--from corrupting our discipleship in Christ? And, how do we use our faith in influencing the secular marketplace?

I, for one, will not be patronizing the film. I want a product that is more faithful to the Gospel, and to history; nor do I want to validate an actor who will use this to promote a trendy, but tragic, moral ill.

The Da Vinci Code

Do_Go_Be_Man — Wed, 24 May 2006 18:05:46 GMT

I'm surprised we don't have a lively dialog going on the Da Vinci Code. Seems like everyone else does.

Contributors and visitors to this forum may find a web site that include resources about the Da Vinci Code useful - Biblical Foundations.

I started to start this thread in the Resources section, but think that a discussion may ensue.

Do Go Be Man
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