 Posted Monday, October 30, 2006 4:06 PM
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Erol said in a message that was moved to CS - General Discussion Not Related to Doctrine | Forum Etiquette.
BTW, there are no "leaders" in the CS movement.
Uh, I know that you and tmcl say a lot of things have changed in CS, but I don't see how this could be one. I assume that MBE is still referred to as Leader. Maybe you were trying to be technical regarding singular and plural. ... or maybe you meant somethings entirely beyond my imagination.
Claiming there are no leaders in the CS movement might also explain its often apparent lack of direction. I also doubt that's what you meant.
There is a Board of Directors for TMC and each branch church. There is a president of TMC.
In any functional organization there must be formal and informal leaders. As much as I might pray for CS to abandon dissident teachings, I do hope that someone is leading in some manner.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Monday, October 30, 2006 5:41 PM
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| lead: a : to guide on a way especially by going in advance b : to direct on a course or in a direction Erol, Of course there are leaders in CS. CS lecturers, CS teachers, and CS practitioners are all guides and role models. In that sense, they are leaders.
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Posted Wednesday, November 01, 2006 5:50 AM
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Do Go,
Christian Scientists have one Leader--God (and His manifestation in Christ). They follow Mary Baker Eddy insofar as she follows Christ, and no further--as she said they should do. So perhaps I should qualify my post by saying that in that sense she is indeed the leader/Leader of the CS movement. But since we don't have access to her any more, we can know her wishes only through her writings and history.
A Board of Directors of a branch church is there to implement the wishes of the members. Branch churches are democratic organisations, with Boards elected periodically. The BOD of most branch churches would be quickly reminded of that fact if they ever tried to exert control from the top.
Personally I do not regard either the Board of TMC or the President of TMC as my leaders, and it would never have occurred to me to do so. (In fact, like many Christian Scientists, I have frequently found myself in disagreement with the Board of TMC.)
I don't know what you mean by dissident teachings. There are dissident Christian Scientists who have left the church, some of whom remain Christian Scientists in belief terms, apart from their decision to quit the CS organization.
I suppose, as you say, in a very broad sense there are leaders and led in any functional organization. But I think most Christian Scientists would--or at least should-- be very suspicious of the notion of personal "leadership", and would refer individuals to God for direction rather than to one person or another. Every month there is a message read out in all CS branch churches, which is something as follows (don't have my books handy);
"Neither animosity nor mere personal attachment should impel the motives or acts of the members of The Mother Church...." It goes on to warn CS against "prophesying, judging, condemning, counselling, influencing or being influenced erronously."
I hope this clarifies some of the issues.
Erol
Do_Go_Be_Man (10/30/2006)
Erol said in a message that was moved to CS - General Discussion Not Related to Doctrine | Forum Etiquette.
BTW, there are no "leaders" in the CS movement.
Uh, I know that you and tmcl say a lot of things have changed in CS, but I don't see how this could be one. I assume that MBE is still referred to as Leader. Maybe you were trying to be technical regarding singular and plural. ... or maybe you meant somethings entirely beyond my imagination.
Claiming there are no leaders in the CS movement might also explain its often apparent lack of direction. I also doubt that's what you meant.
There is a Board of Directors for TMC and each branch church. There is a president of TMC.
In any functional organization there must be formal and informal leaders. As much as I might pray for CS to abandon dissident teachings, I do hope that someone is leading in some manner.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Wednesday, November 01, 2006 6:13 AM
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Erol,
Christian Scientists have one Leader--God (and His manifestation in Christ).
Like I said, the lack of leadership in CS is obvious. Claiming God as your leader and refusing to follow Him explains a lot.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Wednesday, November 01, 2006 6:30 AM
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Do Go,
I don't get the "refusing to follow Him" bit. Christian Scientists certainly try to follow Jesus to the best of their ability, not only in terms of loving God and their fellow man as Jesus required, but in terms of healing the sick which he also specifically required.
Jesus told us how to live in the Sermon on the Mount. Christian Scientists try to live that way just as do other Christians.
Erol
PS my previous post was sent by mistake before completion. Please delete!
Do_Go_Be_Man (11/1/2006)
Erol,
Christian Scientists have one Leader--God (and His manifestation in Christ).
Like I said, the lack of leadership in CS is obvious. Claiming God as your leader and refusing to follow Him explains a lot.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Wednesday, November 01, 2006 9:16 AM
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Erol,
I don't get the "refusing to follow Him" bit.
I doubt that I really need to explain that bit. I'm, of course, referring to the CS practice of ignoring large sections of God's word and redesigning other sections to fit.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Wednesday, November 01, 2006 2:54 PM
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Do Go,
Hey, I thought it was the fundamentalists who did that!
Erol
Do_Go_Be_Man (11/1/2006)
Erol,
I don't get the "refusing to follow Him" bit.
I doubt that I really need to explain that bit. I'm, of course, referring to the CS practice of ignoring large sections of God's word and redesigning other sections to fit.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Wednesday, November 01, 2006 3:07 PM
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Erol,
Hey, I thought it was the fundamentalists who did that!
Some do. Those are the ones from whom I try to disassociate. At least they didn't need to create a glossary and don't claim God to have created manifest mistakes in His word. 
The rest of us may not be perfect, but we do believe that God can write perfectly.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Saturday, November 04, 2006 3:51 PM
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What language do you think God speaks?
Personally I don't believe that God speaks a language. I think human beings get glimpses of the transcendent, which they express (more or less clearly) in language.
As I said before, the metaphysics of Christian Science are implicit in the NT and virtually explicit in Jesus' works and words, though expressed in terms of "earth/heaven" rather than "material/spiritual".
I pray for the time when all Christians will do what Jesus required and heal in his name. If they can do it without reading the Glossary or even the Christian Science textbook, I won't lose any sleep over that.
Erol
Do_Go_Be_Man (11/1/2006)
Erol,
Hey, I thought it was the fundamentalists who did that!
Some do. Those are the ones from whom I try to disassociate. At least they didn't need to create a glossary and don't claim God to have created manifest mistakes in His word.
The rest of us may not be perfect, but we do believe that God can write perfectly.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Saturday, November 04, 2006 6:34 PM
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I believe that God speaks to us through the Holy Spirit. The Bible certainly states that God speaks. When necessary, He spoke through the prophets, and I personally believe that He still uses individuals for prophecy now, but that is just my opinion.
Even during Biblical times, not many listened to what the prophets had to say, so I wouldn't blame God much for keeping quiet now if He chose to, or for protecting his would-be prophets from the all-out assault they would get should they speak to us in His name!
As a side note, there are many times that I find God speaking through music. And, there are people in my life which have said things that I believe are truly inspired by the Holy Spirit.
I also have to add that when taking long walks in the woods or along quiet, remote, lovely paths (like today, for instance, at a nearby reservoir), I have sat to reflect in a very scenic, undisturbed spot and just listened intently to the nature sounds around me. Upon meditating and considering the awesomeness of God, the magnificence of His creation and the wonder of His great love and order throughout the universe -- I have felt God speak. Sometimes in words, sometimes in sensations, sometimes in ways I cannot describe. But at those times, I have learned so very much! And upon later reading new (to me) sections of the Bible, I've found that what I have learned is supported by what I read within its pages. Particularly in the Psalms and also in the writings of Peter, James and Paul.
I believe that in the world we live in, there are so many distractions that keep us from hearing God speak and at times, no matter what language He may use, we are just too caught up in life to hear Him. I also believe that He knows that and is patient with us -- willing to wait, however long, for our ear.
My son shared a story with me today that one of his friends told him, and I think it applies here. My son's friend said that he was hiking one time several years ago and had his infant son in one of those infant belly-packs (like a backpack you wear against your chest). It began to rain hard and they were about a mile from the car. The baby was, of course, distressed and began to fuss and cry. The harder it rained, the louder the baby complained. He said that he snuggled the child close and whispered to him of God's love for him all the way back to the car. Even though the child didn't stop fussing, it was one of the most special times he remembers spending with his son because he felt that they both were wrapped in God's great care as they moved along.
Anyways, he then suggested that my son imagine that child grown up and looking back upon those moments as being dreadful. What if the boy remembered just the misery of being caught in the rain and having to be soaked through, etc. and then one day complained to him (his dad) about how he had taken his child on a walk when it was raining rather than just staying safely at home? Imagine the pain my son's friend would feel because his precious moments with his child were not a shared memory and that the child had missed all the love that he was trying to convey at that moment!
Then he asked my son to consider the scenario of God carrying him (my son) through life's difficulties and whispering all the while how very much He loved my son and how he would protect my son through any difficulty that would be encountered along the path. My son could grow and look at the situation of the walk whatever way he chose to, but missing his Holy Father's great love and holding in thought the difficulties of the journey would cause himself and God also such great needless pain!
God speaks. We can be sure of that. The question is rightly, not what language He uses, but what we choose to hear of what God speaks! I, for one, missed enough of God's love and tender words when trying to rationalize the language of God as being delivered to me through some Christian Science-described method which I needed to grow into understanding of before I could comprehend it! No more of that for this lady, I can assure you! His words are far too important, to wonderous, to holy, to amazing to miss!
Sorry to be so long winded, but I needed to share. I hope it helps someone.
Grace
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