 Posted Thursday, February 08, 2007 8:32 PM
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I can see that Bird (whatever) isnt a CS because hes not receptive to whats true.... I find it so funny that because I wont share what true your going to attack me and say Im not a good scientist? Well to let you know, I am Class taught, and all I have to do is see you as Gods Child nothing can hinder the comments that where said about me and Principia.
You are Gods child you express LOVE and Wisdom.... nothing can take that away from you
Theres my treatment for the site
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Posted Thursday, February 08, 2007 8:43 PM
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Michael,
I have some misgivings having approved your (10:27:04 PM) post. I hope it does not represent your normal manner of dealing with conflict and understand the dichotomy it presents.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Thursday, February 08, 2007 9:21 PM
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But I don't think Michael is being very metaphysical. If I were a Christian Scientist, this is how I might respond:
I'm coming into this a bit late... Birdstrike, while I find your metaphysical ananlysis interesting and pertinent, I wish you had found a way not to use it as a put-down on Michael. I get your point but I can't say I'm comfortable with how you delivered it. And Michael, I have to agree with Do Go Be Man's comments.
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Posted Friday, February 09, 2007 2:50 AM
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I'm sorry, Linda - I couldn't help it. As I may have mentioned to you, I have some experience in the psychology of abuse, and this really was a priceless opportunity to point out how Christian Science can be a dangerous weapon. If one is good with words and headgames, they can really hurt with it.
Mr. Trevail's behavior sets off a number of red-flags. His first post was clearly passive aggression: He accuses C'03 of "wanting to put Principia down", "want(ing) to hurt Principia", being a liar, and finally not being "Christ-like". After setting up this contrast, he then proceeds to tell us that God is on his and Mr. Jenkins' side (Mr. Jenkins is "listening to God", and "God is leading him"). It was all wrapped in honey-sweet, "See - I'm so nice, you're so mean" and "I'm so spiritual" type language, so that it slides under the radar. Psych war 1A.
In the post where he threatens to come and get me, his demeanor completely changes. That's red-flag too, but I must say, I prefer overt aggression to the sneaky, passive kind.
Michael is right - I totally don't know him. But that's the beauty of the internet - it's a level playing field of ideas. All I know is what he wrote. Aside from an obvious axe to grind against Christian Science "theology" - which one might expect here - I'm reasonably objective in this matter.
Michael, I have nothing against you or Principia. You mention people like us giving you "more *** to handle". My advice is to fess-up on any mistakes you guys have made (even if you conceal the big whoppers - if there are any); that would go a long way toward building bridges.
But copping a "Scientific" holier-than-thou attitude, and using it to put others down, is definitely not the thing to do.
Birdstrike
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Posted Friday, February 09, 2007 5:29 AM
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P. S.:
. . . And yes, Linda is right. CS double-speak was my primary target, but I apologize for offending you personally, and I do wish that I could have drawn this out in a better way.
But isn't there something wrong with a "religion" that can be used like this? My C.S. "logic" works just as good as yours. May the slickest tongue win! With its infinite malleability, and lack of any ethical constraints (there's no evil, remember?), C.S. is a headgamer's dream.
Regarding your situation, I know that you have your hands full. As an educator, I know how hard private colleges are to keep afloat financially, but I feel that it is vital that they survive - particularly our religious ones. I truly hope that everything works out for the best, and I will keep you and Principia in my prayers.
Birdstrike
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Posted Friday, February 09, 2007 7:50 AM
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birdstrike (2/9/2007)
how Christian Science can be a dangerous weapon.
Birdstrike
if Christian Science is a dangerous weapon, then why are there so many people like me and others who have found it nad have been healed of ear deafness? If its dangerous, why do they have Christian Science Youth Camps all over the US and the world? What are your thoughts on that?
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Posted Friday, February 09, 2007 1:05 PM
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Michael,
if Christian Science is a dangerous weapon, then why are there so many people like me and others who have found it nad have been healed of ear deafness? If its dangerous, why do they have Christian Science Youth Camps all over the US and the world? What are your thoughts on that?
Answering these questions in this thread is off topic. These forums include many examples where the abuse of CS and the application of CS have resulted in death and serious injury.
I don't know how much you have read in other threads. Many of us, including me, spent decades in CS, were class taught, and came to realize that the teachings of MBE and the practice of CS are not as consistent with Christianity as we once believed. As you explore our forums, you will see that I was quite a CS zealot myself.
After reading some of the other threads, you may want to repost your questions in a thread in a forum such as Doctrinal and Bible Related Issues or CS - General Discussion Not Related to Doctrine.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Friday, February 09, 2007 2:02 PM
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| You where class taught? Who was your teacher? Why did you drop out if you where class taught?
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Posted Friday, February 09, 2007 2:34 PM
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Michael,
You where class taught? Who was your teacher? Why did you drop out if you where class taught?
For reasons that I have partially explained and will someday fully explain, I maintain my anonymity. Thus, I won't mention my CS teacher's name or where I was taught.
I left CS, in part, because of something I was taught in CS class instruction. In typical fashion, I probably took it a bit farther than it was intended. My teacher told us that we should not limit our study of the Bible to the texts cited in the CS Lesson-Sermon. He told us we should also consider the parts the Lesson-Sermon committee left out. I began reading the Bible for full context and began to discover that the full context revealed the fallacies of the CS perspective. Unless you accept the fallacy of God's word as taught by MBE, CS is not compatible with the Bible.
That's the short story. It took me more than 10 years to work through that process. During that time, I did a lot of local, regional, and even some international CS field work. At times, I worked directly with the CS Board and other TMC divisions.
To add something at least close to on topic, my interactions with Prin alum and students also revealed to me some deep problems within the CS movement. Such problems deal with not only the application of CS as taught by MBE, but also the culture of the movement which abuses MBE's teachings.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Friday, February 09, 2007 5:49 PM
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Hi Michael:
Basic internet ettiquette is to choose a moniker and stick with it amongst a defined group of people, just so that that group can unify your comments under it. That's actually a courtesy, seeing as complete anonymity is possible. But protecting one's self on the internet is just a good idea.
I’m guessing that you’re young. In my professional experience, kids like yourself are wonderfully full of energy just waiting to be harnessed - if only you find a cause that you can believe in. A kid like you will take a rifle and charge into certain death if conditions are right. That's how the world works; kids like you have more energy than experience, and old farts like myself and more experience than energy.
Any big religion that wishes to grow will try to harness that energy. The Mormons have a great youth program too, and there are many muslim causes captivate generations of energetic young people. Germany had a great program in the 1930's. Please don't get me wrong; I'm not saying that C.S. is as bad as the Hitler Youth program! But I am trying to say that your obvious excitement amongst your new Christian Science friends is more the fervent belief of youth than it is mature understanding.
But what if Christian Science isn't true? What if it's all silliness - or worse yet, subtle smatterings of truth mixed in with self-contradictory nonsense? Do you really want to build your entire worldview upon a foundation of sand?
I have spent more years in Christian Science than you've been on this earth. My whole family still is C.S. - and as the "theologian" of the family, I was the one that many looked to to explain Christian Science to them! But that came about because I want the truth at any cost - and it ultimately led me right out of Christian Science. "Be ye not decieved", the Bible says. I want God. I want to know who this Jesus Christ really was. I want the truth so badly that I'll accept the fact that I may never really get there - but I'll even settle for being a bit closer to the truth! And I'm also willing to accept the fact that I was mislead by Mary Baker Eddy for most of my life - and make the tough choice that my family's tradition was wrong.
I encourage you to read Science and Health, independently of the lesson. Who was this woman? Think about it from a moral perspective - does this make sense?
I also encourage you to read the Bible, independently of the lesson. Who was this Jesus Christ? Think about his teachings from a moral perspective - do these teachings make sense?
Which one really grapples with the problem of good and evil?
Which one really teaches us how to get along with eachother?
Which one speaks plainly and clearly?
Which one really deals with the world that we actually live in?
I don't know everything, Michael, and I never will. Sometimes in life, we don't exactly know the right way to go. Often it's a matter of trusting God for that and flying "on instruments only", and simply avoiding paths we know are wrong.
But keep your eyes open! Keep asking questions, and try to get to the bottom of things - the fundamental assumptions. The world is a big place! Don't accept things just because of a group dynamic - and especially don't accept them because they merely feel good. You want the truth.
God Bless you,
Birdstrike
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