 Posted Friday, July 06, 2007 8:03 AM
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| Hi, I've been reading the boards for a long time, but have yet to post anything. I am married to a life long CS who is incredibly difficult person. I'm sure he thinks the same of me. Anyway, we have never agreed on religion and therefore seldom discuss our thoughts and opinions. The discussion always ends up with me being the "misinformed" person. I was raised a Methodist and still attend services on a regular basis. My biggest issue with my husband is his constant criticism. I think that he's so obsessed with being perfect because he believes that he is or should be, that he criticizes my every action trying to make me "perfect." I am personally very content with who I am and that I'm not perfect. I try to practice the Fruits of the Spirit and live my life to glorify God. We've been married alittle less than 2 years and I'm not sure that I can take it much more. We tried marriage counseling, but he quit because he wasn't getting anything out of it. All the criticism is killing any passion I have for him, yet when I try to discuss this with him in a loving manner, he doesn't get it. I'm suppose "to get over it". He's now threatening divorce. Perhaps it would be the best thing, although not what I want. My question is whether the criticism is due to his belief in CS, his natural personality or a combination of both? I would like to hear from others who are struggling in their marriages to CSs. Do you experience the same issues? I appreciate any input, suggestions, Ex-CS Hotlines, etc. Inquiring Mind
Inquiring Mind
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Posted Friday, July 06, 2007 8:50 AM
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| Your statement, "The discussion always ends up with me being the "misinformed" person." struck a nerve with me. While I am not married to a Christian Scientist, I was raised in it and my family (what is left of it) still attends the church. It seems to be characteristic of the Christian Scientists that they feel anyone not practicing the religion is unenlightened and are pitied because they do not understand the truth. When I would point out that there are many answered prayers other than in CS, I was told that it was just due to blind faith and that anyone not a CS didn't really understand God! They will continue to do whatever they want whether others suffer and justify it with the argument that THEY are the ENLIGHTENED ones and everyone else just hasn't reached their "level of understanding yet." If they prayed and have been working with a practitioner, they will think that THEY are right because how could the practitioner be wrong or their prayers not be answered! They are suffering from spiritual pride which induces contempt for others. I believe they feel this way because the religion teaches that CS is the comforter promised by Jesus. I also know this because I myself use to believe that CS was the ultimate answer machine! Depending on how steeped he is in the religion, you may have difficulty arguing your side because you are effectively arguing with a brainwashed person.
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Posted Friday, July 06, 2007 5:56 PM
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Inquiring Mind,
I'm so sorry that you are going through the difficulties that you are. Have you discussed your situation with your pastor or another confidant at church? Problem is that they would not likely understand the CS aspects of your problem, but would be great to have a live and in person prayer person.
From the limited amount that you've written and what I can guess, it appears that you're getting hit with a double dose of CS and male ego. Speaking as a male and former CS, CS does not provide the coping tools to deal with just being a guy. We start off with a heavy load of ego, add to that a level of perfect expectations, the hormones kick in, and we are clueless what to do.
The resulting conflict often sends us off into one of those robotic routines ("Danger! Danger! Will Robinson!" "Does not compute! Does not compute!"). We stall, spiral in, and crash. Been there, done that many times, just ask my wife (probably my ex too even though we were both CS at the time).
Marriage is tough enough with the ability to recognize the gray areas of life and work together with your partner. CS paints the world in black and white (reality and unreality). There are no gray tones much less color. Without the ability to moderate, everything becomes a crisis which challenges your deepest held beliefs. Further, you have to constantly prove to all those folks out there who "don't understand" that you do even if you don't.
When your partner is one of the non-understanders, it's all the worse because you never get any down time from having to prove the efficacy of CS and your gratitude to MBE. They more it doesn't work, the more you have to demonstrate that it does.
Is there any way that you can recapture what brought the two of you together in the first place? While I don't suggest that you convert, how much study of CS have you done? Based on my own experience, he is far more likely to pull back from his "God's Perfect Child" perch if you show at least a non-judgmental academic interest in CS. Don't, however, expect him to reciprocate. Also, don't get so caught up in it either to begin believing it or to obviously reject it.
Don't know if any of this helps, but I pray that you and your husband do get the help you need.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Friday, July 06, 2007 8:27 PM
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| Do Go Be Man: Thanks for your insight. I think between the big ego and this faith in CS, I've absolutely married a monster. The point about everything being black and white is so true. I often challenge my husband on why things are so black and white for him. It's as if there's no such thing as shades of gray. I guess I never thought that this would be a part of his religious upbringing, but then again, I don't know everything about CS. As for the suggestion on reading up on CS, I did read one book that he recommended, but I also read "God's Perfect Child" and "The Religion that Kills" You can just imagine his response when he saw those books in his house. I think he was afraid that that the CS Squad was going to raid our house and confiscate them. I, on the otherhand, got two different perspectives of the religion by reading all of the books. And no, I can not imagine every allowing myself to be brainwashed by the CS doctrine. I think I would rather remain "uninformed" and a Methodist. Lastly, I did speak with my minister about the situation. He is totally supportive of me and knows that this marriage may end in divorce. He and other members of our congregation have offered me tremendous support, so I feel very blessed and fortunate to belong to such a terrific church. Again, thanks for your input. It gives me some things to think about.
Inquiring Mind
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Posted Saturday, July 07, 2007 6:13 PM
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Inquiring Mind,
I hope I didn't further encourage the image of your husband as a monster. Though maybe not exactly, I was trying to encourage the possibility he may be a prince trapped in a toad. While not claiming to be a prince or a frog, the conditions I described trapped me for a long time. Even now I sometimes revert to old CS habits. Your husband may also be trapped between the rocks and the hard places created by CS just needing someone to gently help him out.
While still in CS and in such a trap, I dated a Christian woman. Our relationship was strained and ultimately undone by our religious differences. She was quite opposed to CS, but only because she was told she should be. She could not express her objections in her own words. She could also not adequately discuss her own Christian beliefs from a perspective of Scripture. I assumed we had the Bible in common and should be able to use that as a foundation for discussion. I was very interested in her and went so far as to contact her minister asking for time and resources to understand her church's beliefs. I got a stack of appreciated books and pamphlets, but no time. The materials were so foreign to me that I could not independently find a starting point to understand them.
Had my girlfriend been able to intelligently discuss her opposition to CS and/or her Christian beliefs, we would likely have married with me abandoning CS and accepting Jesus much earlier. Our relationship could have been strengthened instead of weakened by our differences. I hasten to add that the Holy Spirit had a different plan for me and that I'm happy He did.
The single most effective witness in my life for Jesus Christ and against CS that I've ever met was a Baptist minister on a plane late one night as I returned from CS class instruction. He knew the Scriptures and he knew MBE's teachings in many ways better than I did. It took years for what he shared to sink in, but eventually it did.
I once browsed through the library of a pastor who was well known for preaching against CS. His library included most, if not all, of MBE's writings. It was obvious from handwritten notes in the margins that he had read them in depth.
I rarely suggest to anyone to read CS teachings. I'm glad that you have read Linda's book and God's Perfect Child. You, however, are in one of those situations where you may be served to read and learn more about CS than you have.
I also recommend the chapter on CS in Walter Martin's book, The Kingdom of the Cults. The web pages on cults provide some worthwhile articles on witnessing and on CS that you may want to share with your pastor and prayer partners. BTW, the page I linked to the book title has a picture that looks a lot like the Baptist minister I spoke to on the plane.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Thursday, July 19, 2007 1:39 PM
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Dear Inquiring Mind,
It seems like you're in a really tough place. And it sure doesn't sound easy.
I'm not sure I would recommend following Do Go Be Man's advice though. If you are hoping to reconcile with your husband who apparently loves CS -- I don't think reading all the antagonistic literature out there will help you. My husband and I were both raised as CSers and are at different places with it now. And I married him knowing that the paths we might take for spiritual fulfillment might be a little different. What we share is a love of God, a deep value of prayer and a desire for personal and spiritual growth. But I feel that our ability to love and respect one another for our choices is very important-- Even if our choices might be different. Ultimately, our willingness to try to understand one another's perspective, to be humble in knowing neither of us has all the answers -- has greatly served my Christian path.
Not all CSers believe they have a monopoly on Truth -- but I'm sure some do. Even in the threads of this discussion, it's clear that that's not just a trait of CSers -- many religious people believe their way is the only right way.
It does sounds like your husband has trouble acknowledging differing perspectives. I hope both of you can find a way to disagree while honoring one another. There's nothing Christian or Christian Science-like about stubborness or pride. I'm sure you long for a safe environment to be open with all your thoughts. And I truly hope you find it.
In support of you and your marriage,
Erin
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Posted Thursday, July 19, 2007 4:33 PM
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Ultimately, our willingness to try to understand one another's perspective, to be humble in knowing neither of us has all the answers -- has greatly served my Christian path.
Erin, It sounds like you and your husband have a good relationship and have found a way to thrive in your marriage despite your religious differences. That's great! Unfortunately, Inquiring Mind is in a very different situation since her husband is constantly criticising her in an attempt to make her "perfect." Under the circumstances, I think it's a good idea for her to gain a better understanding of her husband's world view and how he thinks. This HAS to involve learning what CS teaches and how it affects its followers, both positively and negatively. There are valuable perspectives to be gained by reading both literature that supports CS and literature that offers valid criticism.
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Posted Saturday, July 21, 2007 10:50 AM
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Hi Linda,
I think I’m just trying to say that it’s possible to have differing beliefs and still love and respect one another – even if a CSer is involved. I guess I’d promote talking with someone directly if I want to learn more about their world view – asking questions with a desire to understand and expressing feelings and concerns I have as feelings and concerns, not accusations.
I've noticed in one of the earlier comments, someone mentioned how they could relate to feeling looked down upon by a CSer. Like the CSer felt they knew the Truth and the other person was "misinformed". What an ugly feeling. And yet, the chapter in “Kingdom of the Cults” that was recommended to Inquiring Mind does pretty much the same thing -- in reverse. I believe this line of thinking leaves Inquiring Mind and her husband at odds because it centers around intolerance and arrogance.
Let’s say I wasn’t a religious person, and I had a friend who was deeply involved in a Christian church community. Let’s say this friend was trying eagerly to “bring me into the fold” and that his strategy felt condescending to me. I felt hurt by it, insulted even. To save/strengthen our friendship, I probably would NOT go out and read Richard Dawkins “The God Delusion” or Christopher Hitchens “God is not Great” to better understand my friend’s world view. These might serve to deepen my judgment that my view is correct and that he has been effectively brainwashed by doctrine – but they probably won’t promote reconciliation between us. Instead, I’d want to communicate directly to my friend that I felt hurt and put down by his efforts. I would let my friend know that I can see his faith is important and meaningful to him. I might tell him that I’d be interested to hear more about how he’s experiencing his faith and that I’d be happy to share my experiences and thoughts on faith, but only if it’s our way of sharing ourselves fully with one another – not trying to mold one another according to our respective beliefs. Hopefully, that kind of interaction would help to broaden both of our perspectives.
There’s so much about Inquiring Mind’s situation that I don’t know – so, I don’t know if reconciliation is really an option. Her husband would have to actively participate in conversation and both would need to want to hear and work to understand one another’s thoughts and feelings.
If reconciliation is an option, I just wanted to offer a different perspective of where to start.
Erin
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Posted Saturday, July 21, 2007 11:25 AM
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| Hi Erin, I guess I’d promote talking with someone directly if I want to learn more about their world view – asking questions with a desire to understand and expressing feelings and concerns I have as feelings and concerns, not accusations.
I agree completely. If that approach doesn't work because the other person won't let it work (as I surmise is Inquiring Mind's situation), I think it's helpful to gain as much information as possible about the other person's beliefs and overall mindset -- even if that requires going to other sources. And, with that informaion in hand, it's still important to approach the other persoln with respect. I don't approve of condescension from either side.
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Posted Saturday, September 29, 2007 11:12 AM
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To inquiring mind,
This is about control and power. Christian Science is the football he is kicking around to maintain his control over you. He sets you up for failure and you fail because you do not know what he knows, namely Christian Science.
The key was when he said he did not get anything out of counciling. Take him back to the councilor.
Tell him you want a level playing field, that contempt is not ok and that you are a human being, not a human doing. (think the beattitudes)
Call him on his contemptuous behavior, ask him recognize it for what it is, abuse and tell him to make a choice. Either he wakes up to how his behavior makes you feel and changes his behavior or you will end the relationship.
Him hearing it through a professional "stranger's" ears will get his attention.
If he pulls the "did not get anything out of counciling" trick, that is just a way for him to remain in control. Tell him that he is choosing to not see my feelings as important. Tell him that is good information and you will choose to seek a new life where you are valued and charished.
This is about the marriage covenant. I will love, honor, and charish… . He is breaking the covenant. Since he broke the covenant, you are free to go. When he is confronted with that he will quickly change his tune and see how his behavior has been hurtful to you. Or his mask will completely come away and you will know exactly what you must do and how quickly.
Christian Science has nothing to do with this. This is about his power and control over you and whether you are going to let this bully continue or if you are going to wake up and do the journey of life in peace.
Read Co-dependant No More and The Dance of Anger. Both these books address these issues.
a person who was brought up in Christian Science and cannot understand how it has power over anyone
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