 Posted Tuesday, July 31, 2007 8:59 PM
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| Are there any alumni here? I was there form 1974-1980. jill
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Posted Wednesday, August 01, 2007 8:15 PM
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| Hi Jill, No, I didn't attend the Cedars camp. I did spend a few weeks at the Adventure Unlimited camps in Colorado in about 1971. Did you enjoy your visits to Cedars?
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Posted Saturday, August 04, 2007 7:59 PM
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I went to Cedars as a camper and counselor from 1994 (?) - 2000. I'm not exactly sure on the dates although I know it was at least 5 years because I was so proud to get my "tree". I left CS in 2003.
Courtney (Bogott) Moser
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Posted Monday, April 14, 2008 4:40 AM
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| [Moderator's note: message deleted by IleftCSin74's special request]
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Posted Monday, April 14, 2008 10:56 AM
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ILeftCSin74,
I do not want to necessarily imply that your stories of abuse are exaggerated. As co-moderator of the forum, however, I feel that I should point out they represent your point of view and not necessarily those of the forum host, moderators, or other participants.
Hope you understand that without independent corroboration, we need to caution that your representation of your experiences are not typical of the camps.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Monday, April 14, 2008 2:29 PM
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| [Moderator's note: message deleted by IleftCSin74's special request]
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Posted Monday, April 14, 2008 3:23 PM
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Mark,
You and I both know that CS preaches the denial of the physical world and the perfection of the spiritual world. This denial of all things material is the foundation of my claim.
I pray that you did not take offense at the disclaimer I provided and ask your forgiveness and understanding if you did. I truly do appreciate your contributions.
I too had altitude sickness in the Colorado mountains as a CSist. I was unconscious for three days with no medical care. I eventually revived and testified to the glory of CS, S&H, and MBE. While I suppose the CSists who were aware of my condition did their expected work/denial, I suspect now that being carried to a lower altitude had more to do with my healing. There are those who regularly visit this site that may claim I suffered irreversible brain damage as a result of that experience.
Being on a tight time crunch just now, I didn't fully read your latest post yet. If indicated, I will respond further later.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Monday, April 14, 2008 7:42 PM
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Mark,
How do I tell anyone my story without stepping on some unsubstantiated toes? ... Mic Hunter, a nationally-respected authority on childhood sexual abuse in Minneapolis would call you all kinds of names for questioning a 10 year-old's memories on lack of substantiation. ... Trying to deny a kid's memories on substantiation grounds is what happened to me. ... And still there are those who question a 10 year-old boy's memories?
As I said earlier, I apologize for how the necessary disclaimer sounded to you. It's not that I'm calling your story into question or demanding substantiation. Just as talk show jocks do, when discussion gets that intense and personal readers need to be reminded that we are dealing with personal opinions and experiences. Only you and your abuser can directly speak to their validity. We each must judge for ourselves the credibility of your statements. In no way am I telling anyone to disbelieve you, however, I wasn't there and cannot speak accurately to what occurred.
As a journalist, I was trained to call all criminals "alleged" until the courts said we could call them what they were. It riled me greatly. Innocent until proven guilty is an especially difficult concept for victims. Child molesters are the worst sort of criminal and I've had to deal with some myself. Once proven such, I have very unChristian suggestions as to how to provide for their futures. Jesus made it very clear, however, what they have to anticipate - "It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin." Luke 17:2.
Please let me know if I have still failed to allay your concerns regarding the need to establish an objective context for your story.
Let me ask you? Are you still a Christian Scientist? Is this site mainly designed to catch and attempt to discredit former CS members stories of abuse?
This site is exactly what it declares itself to be. It is maintained by Christians who were CSists. We discovered the fallacy of CS and, by God's Grace, the truth of God's word. We are here to minister to CSists, those leaving CS, former CSists, and those affected by CS. Having been substantially abused by CS, we have a great shared compassion for those who were and are similarly abused.
Lack of faith caused me to suffer with athlete's foot all through childhood from the age of 7, or at least that is what my mother told me. Do you question whether this statement is substantiatable?
Your mother was wrong. Faith has nothing to do with athlete's foot. A few smears of ointment could have killed the fungus and spared you a lot of grief. I once suffered a different manifestation of the same fungus when I was a CSist. A few squirts of Lotrimin and some clean clothes and I found relief. I felt burdensome guilt and shame, but now give thanks for the wisdom that developed the fungicide.
Well, you have a lot more information to research now. I'm sure your site has had to deal with many bitter ex- CS-types over time though. How do you handle them? Do you banish them to other sites?
We have dealt with many bitter ex-, current, and alleged CSist types. So long as conduct themselves civilly and in line with the terms of use of the site and forum, anyone can express themselves regarding their experience with CS pretty much any way they feel compelled to do. Very few have been banned and each of them due to their conduct, not their content.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Monday, April 14, 2008 9:52 PM
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| IleftCSin74, I am just coming into this discussion as I've been away from my computer all day. Welcome! I'm glad you have found us. Some of your experiences remind me of my own: I attended the AU camps in Colorado on 1971. (We seem to have just missed each other since you were there in 1970 and 1972!) I did the 13 day mountain climbing trip which included climbing around on some of those 14,000 ft. peaks you mentioned. It was a life-changing trip (overall for the better), although pretty challenging at the time since I couldn't get enough rest the first 10 days of the trip (couldn't get warm at night so hardly slept). One of the guys on the trip was rock climbing and fell of a cliff when he slipped and the safety rope broke. He survived with remarkably few injuries, but it has troubled me that he was taken down the hill the next day on a donkey that was brought up from the main camp. I don't know if other arrangements (like a helicopter) would have been made had his injuries been more severe. I remember those boulder fields, as I crossed one with our group -- a tough but pretty neat experience. Like your friend, I lost my balance while climbing one of the rocks and fell backwards. Fortunately, I managed to get my arms out of my backpack so that I fell straight down rather than toppling backwards; the guy behind me was pretty impressed by my quick reflexes. I don't know if I'm thinking of your friend Tim or not, but I do remember hearing that a boy died on the mountain not long after I was there (I thought it was 1972). The story I heard was that he had some kind of heart condition that his parents didn't disclose. After he died, one of the counselors picked him up and carried his body several miles back to the main AU camp. If the kid I know of wasn't Tim, then Tim's death would be the second camper to die in a couple of years (can't verify this one way or the other). Like you, I went on an AU sponsored ski trip when I was in high school. Three of us on the trip were injured. Jan broke her foot and I badly sprained my ankle. After I was carried off the mountain and my ski boot was removed, a practitioner on the trip had me put my regular boot on and we walked (limped) up and down the mountain road while "knowing the Truth" about the situation. The pain was excruciating. Jan and I both made the several-hour bus trip home without having our feet bandaged. Another boy broke his leg and did get medical care; we heard that he went to the hospital because of his non-CS father. In all fairness to our chaperones, I'm sure they would have called my parents and even taken me to the hospital had I requested it -- but I was as caught up in trying to heal the situation as they were and it never occurred to me to call my parents. After I got home I limped around for weeks on the unwrapped ankle, trying to look like it wasn't sprained. I never saw the type of sexual behavior you described in your camp experiences; I'm sorry to hear that you went through all that. The CS culture was promoted as very moral, and the discrepancy between that and what happened to you must have made things even worse.
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Posted Monday, April 14, 2008 11:01 PM
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| [Moderator's note: message deleted by IleftCSin74's special request]
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