 Posted Monday, April 14, 2008 11:26 PM
|
|
|
|
| Sorry to come down on you so hard. I couldn't even remember the name of the camp in Missouri. Thanks to your site now I remember their name. I have a lot of buried anger towards the religion. My stepdad tried to separate his church from the abusers from his church before his death. Just a month ago my fiance's mother tried to get me to watch some video put out by some charasmatic Father who's sermon was about coming back to the Catholic Church. It did not go over too well with me, as my own mother has tried for many years to get me to come back to CS. It just shows the level of the buried animosity when it explodes out 3 to 4 decades later. I have seen many therapists for my other problems but never been successful finding a group of similarly-abused ex-CSers. And you folks are all religious folks. I have been unable to trust any religion for 35 years or more. No hard feelings towards you or your mission. I prefer to discuss my issues free from religion. All of the pain and suffering just spills out whenever I discuss religion. Mark
|
|
|
Posted Tuesday, April 15, 2008 11:08 AM
|
|
|
|
Mark:
My heart goes out to you describing your experiences. I was active in a CS youth group in our church, but fortunately never had any experiences like that.
I can totally understand how you feel about any organized religion. While I had other issues with CS, I too was totally unimpressed with anything spiritual after I broke my ties, and vocally so. After all, if CS was really true Christianity as I was taught, and CS was a fraud, than anything that birthed it (i.e., Christianity, the Bible, etc.) must be also.
It was years later that a friend I respected encouraged me to do something which I hope, in a humble spirit, I might ask you to consider also. That is to read the New Testament from cover to cover. I did this free of Mary Baker Eddy's "interpretations" for the first time, and found something totally different than I had been taught. I ask this also without obligation on your part, or the idea that it will lead you to any church, denomination, etc.
To the contrary, its been my experience (anecdotal though it may be) that most folks never read the NT cover to cover to see what it says, independent of what their particular faith or persuasion may be. Its the latter which unfortunately has caused many problems in the world.
Again, thank you for sharing, and may you be blessed today and always.
John
|
|
|
Posted Tuesday, April 15, 2008 1:27 PM
|
|
|
|
Mark,
It is unfortunate that so much abuse has been falsely committed in the name of religion. Looking at even today's headlines regarding the sect in Texas, we don't have to go back to the Crusades or Jonestown to find heinous abuse cases. We also have our own personal examples.
I went through my periods of rejecting organized religion and encountered less gross examples of abuse. Coming out of CS, I was a member of two mainstream churches over a few years and ran up against some outrageous abuses and failures to stand by what they professed to believe including a pastor who unconditionally defended a child molester and declared the Bible to be irrelevant.
There was a time I thought I would never set foot in a church again.
For me, a church should be a hospital for sinners rather than a museum for saints. Based on my beliefs, we are all a bunch of no good scoundrels. I've never committed any of the atrocities we've been discussing, but I have my own dark corners.
Where I am now, I don't have to pretend to be perfect. No use pretending because the people I associate with aren't any better and know I'm not.
Guess where I'm going with this is that while I understand, sympathize, and empathize with your concerns regarding religion in general, they don't represent or apply to all religion. Even having no religion can be religious. There's lots of bad stuff out there, but also much that is legitimate and beneficial.
I struggled with my own bad religious experiences for a long time and continue to struggle with the abuse my son-in-law experienced. I could not, however, in good conscience encourage you to reject all religion just because there's so much bad. The answers I've found and that other forum contributors find work in our lives may not be what you want. They are, however, the best we have to offer and do so in what we truly believe to be your best interests and needs.
Do Go Be Man
<><
|
|
|
Posted Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:48 PM
|
|
|
|
| Do Go: It has been more than two weeks since I made my requests for information from AU and the Cedars camps. I only asked the Cedars for dates of attendance and any photos from those sessions that they have in their archives. It may be that the Cedars does not maintain year-round personnel to answer these types of questions. A Kathy Lawson did initially respond from AU but has not provided any of the information that I requested such as the dates of my attendance or anything about the death of my friend there. The lack of information about my friend's death is very odd. I have checked numerous places for any record and have found nothing. There is no obituary record or any mention of his death in the local Buena Vista newspaper archives. Social Security has no record of his death either, though he was 17 at the time. I have been stonewalled in other places too. I have to wonder whether the camp even reported his death at the time. Then there is the oddball offer to house me there when in my first email I plainly stated that I had not been a CSer since the fall of 1974. To say the least I am a little leery of their offer. Did you ever get a copy of my mom's book? I discovered that I have 3 copies of the revised 1997 edition. I would be willing to mail you a copy. I could send it to Christian Way in Phoenix or mail it to you directly if you were to share an address. My mother has been active in opposing the initiatives of CHILD at the State legislative level, and lambastes both Rita Swan and Caroline Fraser in her book HEALING. I would be surprised if Linda didn't know who she was. She is a very vocal defender of State law protecting CS-healing exemptions. She was involved in a case in the Ohio legislature some years ago, and has testified before the CA legislature more recently. Of course, she is making a six-figure salary faith-healing over the phone. Let me know about the book. Mark
|
|
|
Posted Thursday, June 19, 2008 2:32 AM
|
|
|
|
It might have been 1970 and 1972. 1972 was he summer that I turned 15. Tim may have died in 1973 or 1974, I can't remember.
Trucker51
|
|
|
Posted Thursday, June 19, 2008 6:53 AM
|
|
|
|
IleftCSin74 (4/22/2008)
Then there is the oddball offer to house me there when in my first email I plainly stated that I had not been a CSer since the fall of 1974. To say the least I am a little leery of their offer.
I used to work at AU and might be stopping by to visit in a few weeks. We had a few non-CSers live there who had no problems.
G
|
|
|
Posted Monday, September 22, 2008 2:26 PM
|
|
|
|
| I was at Adventure Unlimited's Sky Valley Ranch in July, 1971! Were you at Roundup in July of that year?
|
|
|
Posted Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:14 AM
|
|
|
|
I was at the A/U camps in 1971 and 1972, but I did have a positive experience there. I stuck with the lower mountain climbs, to about 11,000 feet, and anyway, I grew up in Denver and was in the mountains frequently, so I was well adapted to high altitude. I do remember, however, that those who took the higher climbs up to 14,000 feet and higher, did not take any oxygen.
As for the sexual misconduct, during my freshman year at Principia College, it became fairly common knowledge that one of the teachers took several of the male students skinny dipping. Don't know if he was a counselor at one of the camps as well. I can't remember his name, although I could look it up in my yearbook. He was not at the college the following year, and it was said that was the reason, but nothing was said officially, of course.
Ann
|
|
|
Posted Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:56 AM
|
|
|
|
IleftCSin74 (4/14/2008)
Sorry to come down on you so hard. I couldn't even remember the name of the camp in Missouri. Thanks to your site now I remember their name. I have a lot of buried anger towards the religion. My stepdad tried to separate his church from the abusers from his church before his death. Just a month ago my fiance's mother tried to get me to watch some video put out by some charasmatic Father who's sermon was about coming back to the Catholic Church. It did not go over too well with me, as my own mother has tried for many years to get me to come back to CS. It just shows the level of the buried animosity when it explodes out3 to 4decades later. I have seen many therapists for my other problems but never been successful finding a group of similarly-abused ex-CSers. And you folks are all religious folks. I have been unable to trust any religion for 35 years or more.
No hard feelings towards you or your mission. I prefer to discuss my issues free from religion. All of the pain and suffering just spills out whenever I discuss religion.
Mark
Actually, not everyone on this site is religious. I also feel no interest in becoming involved in any organized religion after my Christian Science experiences. I was a 4th generation Christian Scientist, and went to the A/U camps, Principia, and class instruction, and was a Second Reader. I left in 1986, at the age of 33.
My sisters and brother all left also. One sister is nonreligious like me; one became Presbyterian (her husband's church, and also the one my mother was raised in), and my brother just drifted away from CS, and married a Catholic. Now widowed, my mother no longer considers herself a Christian Scientist. It was my father's family that was strong in it -- his sister(my aunt) is still a very strong CS, and involved in Principia, as is my cousin who coaches at the Upper School, and is putting all of his six children through Principia.
I used to wonder if I would ever be interested in another church, but I never felt any wish to explore that. I consider myself to be a spiritual person, but not religious. I love learning about history, and including the history of religion, so I see organized religion as a human-created part of society. After dealing for 20 years with my buried rage over so much that happened to me in Christian Science, I just have no interest at all in organized religion, or even in the Bible, though I respect the religious paths of others.
Ann
|
|
|
|