 Posted Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:44 PM
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I've got a couple of thoughts to add regarding Linda's statement, ... much of Bible deals with payment for sin ....
The Bible is clear regarding the existence and consequences of sin. That was a huge disconnect for me regarding CS.
CS claims the Bible as its basis, yet tells us that basis is flawed, distorted, misunderstood, and outright wrong. Thus, in order to study the Bible in CS we need the Key to understanding it. We need a scientific basis for understanding and applying the lost wisdom of God's word. Like doctrinal forensic scientists, we need to learn to discard irrelevant evidence, develop hidden evidence, and interpret evidence in plain sight. (Anyone hear about a new TV series, CSI: Back Bay? Didn't think so.)
Here's the thing, the Bible says we have a problem. We've sinned against God, disobeyed His Law, and justly deserve the appropriate punishment of eternal separation from Him. If God were merely just, He would have abandoned us long ago. If He didn't mean it, He wouldn't have said it. If the Bible is wrong, it should be discarded not claimed as a foundation.
God, however, is also merciful, created us, loves us as only a Father can, did mean it, and did record it in the Bible for us to read and trust. So, what's a Father to do?
I heard a story a while back about a dad who took his daughter for a drive in the country. A bee flew into the car and buzzed the little girl who was allergic to bee stings. She was terrified. The bee landed on the dash. The dad reached out and squashed it with the palm of his hand. He was stung in the process, but his daughter was safe.
God provided His Word, His Son, to take the sting of sin for us (John 1:1-18). What a deal!!! We are guilty for offending God and He takes our punishment (John 3:16-21).
If you think the Bible is just some sort of fairy tale, then CS even as described by MBE is not for you either. If you think it really is God's word, then treat it with the respect it deserves all the way from Genesis to Revelation without skipping over it or cherry-picking. God knew what He was doing when He gave it to us and did it very well.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Saturday, May 24, 2008 10:52 AM
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| I was perusing the discussion board today at christianscience.com & was intrigued by the post "Christian Science Principles vs. Math Principles". I read through the thread, slightly amused by the attempt to marry logic's demand that matter exists vs. CSists' demand that it does not. I say I was only slightly amused until the last post: "Never give a testimony until you know it never happened." I literally laughed uncontrollably at the sheer ridiculousness & irrationality of that statement for two minutes. zoarean
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Posted Saturday, May 24, 2008 4:01 PM
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Zoarean,
"Never give a testimony until you know it never happened."
I was tempted to declare your post off topic and move it to the Christian Science Jokes thread. 
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Saturday, May 24, 2008 8:31 PM
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| Actually, the "it never happened" thing isn't all that funny. If you have a copy of my book, take a look at "Maria's" case history on page 145-146. Maria's friend was badly injured and, as a fairly new CSist, Maria told her CS mentor about it. The mentor told her, "the radical spiritual truth that applies is that [the friend] never fell!" In later years Maria deeply regretted buying into that "radical truth" since it had made her insensitive to her friend in his time of need.
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Posted Sunday, May 25, 2008 3:34 AM
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| Linda, I agree. I actually did think initially to post it in the "CS Jokes" section, but decided to put it here because it speaks to the original rhetorical of this thread- "the incongruity of CS & logic". Truly, the dark side to CS's inane denial of rationality comes forth when it stops indulging only the abstract, philosophical realm & emerges to impact real people so negatively. I did a parady of a CS "Star Trek" in the Jokes section awhile back, & I had to apologize for closing it in a dark fashion. But that's the point- when CS principles are applied in the real world of real pain & real death, those blessed to have something greater than the myopic vision of CS "logic" perceive the unnecessary pain & death such principles inevitably cause. I placed the quote here in the hope of re-igniting a serious discussion along this vein. On the CS.com board, prior to the above quote, one person said- "if I've got a physical problem and I pray and think I've "got it," but quickly check the physical results, am I really believing that I'm not material?" Another responded with "At what point would you look at the physical results then? I don't think praying and then looking, praying and looking is correct, but I wonder when it's okay to 'check' and see if it's healed." Rationally, it is preposterously self-refuting to look to the material seeking evidence to validate your belief that the material does not exist. But that's exactly what Wednesday night in a CS church attempts to do- substantiate a belief in our immateriality by giving material evidence. A part of me chuckles at this illogic, but another part realizes the suffering such irrational thinking causes in application & grieves for their body & soul. zoarean
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Posted Tuesday, July 08, 2008 3:18 PM
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To be sure, a great many CS's don't think of S & H as inerrant -- just as the Bible (any translation) is not inerrant. They are rich texts of spiritual insight and stories -- some real/some not in the Bible -- of spiritual seekers finding and communing with God while wrestling with their humanity. No doubt there those CS's -- like fundamentalists taking the Bible literally as God's Word -- that confuse S & H with "the Truth". But but me, it is not -- though it certainly is MBE's understanding of Truth at the time she was writing it. But times have changed in the last 100 years, and there are some things in S & H that most CS seekers have moved beyond -- just as MBE probably would have if she were still writing. I mean, who lives according to the literal lines of Leviticus written how many thousand years ago?... Certainly not any Christian -- at least the literal Leviticus I've read.
And as to CS not being logical?... Is it that your logic is more logical? Or just yours? Like the song sings -- "you say potato and I say potato."
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Posted Tuesday, July 08, 2008 8:57 PM
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To be sure, a great many CS's don't think of S & H as inerrant -- just as the Bible (any translation) is not inerrant. They are rich texts of spiritual insight and stories -- some real/some not in the Bible -- of spiritual seekers finding and communing with God while wrestling with their humanity. No doubt there those CS's -- like fundamentalists taking the Bible literally as God's Word -- that confuse S & H with "the Truth". But but me, it is not -- though it certainly is MBE's understanding of Truth at the time she was writing it. But times have changed in the last 100 years, and there are some things in S & H that most CS seekers have moved beyond -- just as MBE probably would have if she were still writing. I mean, who lives according to the literal lines of Leviticus written how many thousand years ago?... Certainly not any Christian -- at least the literal Leviticus I've read.
The Bible is much more than a collection of "spiritual insights and stories" -- it hangs together much too well and contains too many fulfilled prophesies to be that (Leviticus, by the way, was written to a specific group of people for a specific timeframe in history). Mrs. Eddy DID teach that her writings were infallible. If you can't trust her on that point , which is huge when you really think about it , how can you trust anything else she says? Seems like someone who claims to be delivering an infallible message from God is either correct (which you deny), dangerous, or deluded.
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Posted Wednesday, July 09, 2008 8:20 AM
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Linda's words:-
"The Bible is much more than a collection of "spiritual insights and stories" -- it hangs together much too well and contains too many fulfilled prophesies to be that (Leviticus, by the way, was written to a specific group of people for a specific timeframe in history). Mrs. Eddy DID teach that her writings were infallible. If you can't trust her on that point , which is huge when you really think about it , how can you trust anything else she says? Seems like someone who claims to be delivering an infallible message from God is either correct (which you deny), dangerous, or deluded. "
Wow, that says it all, Linda thankyou.
Jan
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Posted Wednesday, July 09, 2008 3:03 PM
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| "(Leviticus, by the way, was written to a specific group of people for a specific timeframe in history)." Correct, & despite the fact that the New Testament makes it clear that Christians are under the "better covenant" written on our hearts- the Law of Christ- Leviticus still has great value. It substantiates the concept that God has tenable standards & it reflects his demand for justice in response to sin. It reminds us of where we would be if not for Christ's cross. Anyone looking to properly interpret the Constitution looks to the extant writings of its authors to make a right judgment. We better understand the heart of God if we likewise study all His writings. Also, Paul declares in two places (Rom 4:24 & 1Cor 9:10) things written in the Law of Moses of were written for us as well as them. zoarean
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