Posted Tuesday, September 04, 2007 1:56 PM
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| The thread topic is a paraphrase of a question posed on the "Scandal at Principia" thread (see posts 13895 and 13898, 9-3-07). The anonymous poster also asked the following question in response to my answer (post 13896): 6. Also, what exactly do you mean when you say you "reject" CS? Why don't you just say you don't believe in CS? As someone unfamiliar with the subject, I would have thought that saying, "I rejected Catholicism 10 years ago" means I don't believe it anymore. Do believers in the Christian Way continue to reject CS? If so, how is that?
I'm moving these questions out of the "Scandal..." thread since they do't fit into that topic.
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Posted Tuesday, September 04, 2007 2:33 PM
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| First, I'll observe that most of the people dissatisfied with CS have NOT remained in the religion. By private estimates I have seen, it appears that CS church membership is at MOST about 25 percent of what it was when Census figures reported a US membership of 268,915 in 1936. With that said, some dissatisfied people do remain in the church for many of the same reasons that they remain in other organizations (their friends are there, not wanting to disappoint family members, etc.). Some people are afraid to leave CS because they believe that they will get sick if they start believing in the reality of matter. 6. Also, what exactly do you mean when you say you "reject" CS? Why don't you just say you don't believe in CS? First, let's clarify the definition of "reject." According to the online Merriam-Webster dictionary" reject = "to refuse to accept, consider, submit to, take for some purpose, or use" (emphasis mine) Now that I understand that Mrs. Eddy's teachings disagree with the Bible while claiming to clarify it, I refuse to accept, consider, or use those teachings. I also reject her teaching that the material world is an illusion to be overcome. So you can say that I don't belive in CS anymore, and you can equally say that I reject its teachings.
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Posted Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:15 PM
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| Perhaps, Madam Moderator, this thread would be better situated in "Recovery Issues"? (Moderator's note: Thanks for the suggstion, fH. I did move the thread.) That said, this is a meaty matter indeed! The first word that came to my mind upon engaging this thread was bondage. Bondage comes in a variety of types, and within them, varieties of degree. Spiritual bondage is very applicable here, and will probably provoke the most numerous and heated replies, so I will leave it alone, for now. But there are others: psychological, familial, and economic for example. Consider what you suggested back on the Principia thread, Linda--that some students may be at Prin simply because of parental pressure, or even coercion, in that they will pay costs for Principia and Principia only! A long, long, time ago, in a thread far, far away I argued* that there is a parallel between belonging to a destructive religious group and those (usually female, no coincidence) who are in abusive relatinships. The victim hates it, fears it, wishes she could be free from it, and yet there are powerful factors which keep her in it, and/or returning to it. There is a bizarre patholical logic to this, but victims do come back--a lot! There is a system of rules they understand. They remain charmed & enchanted by the abuser. There are periods of tranquility and emotional bliss along the way. They blame themselves (how true that is of CS'ists who "fail"!!) for their problems. And they remain irrationally optimistic, always hoping & expecting that "next time it will be different." We like to think of ourselves as rational and reasonable people, but are we, when and where it counts? Another parallel: Think of the investor who holds on to a stock or mutual fund long after it's tanked, still trusting his initial (bad) judgement, and still hoping and expecting that "it will turn around." *based upon my experience as a night shift police officer, who has responded to quite a few domestic calls
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Posted Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:26 PM
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| I would also add that I was taught that whatever form "error" presents itself, it MUST be eventually met in some form on some level. Therefore, if it wasn't met through Christian Science, it would eventually reappear and have to be met then. I was taught it was always better to meet it through Christian Science the first time. I think this is what launches the deadly spiral into death for so many of them. This fear is also part of the bondage and the sick psychological mind control that keeps one in the church.
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Posted Tuesday, September 04, 2007 5:04 PM
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| The original questions were apparently regarding Prin, so I did not respond. The poster who asked the questions has since expanded the questions to include the rest of us. The main question seems to be why would anyone stay in a belief system in which they sincerely did not believe. That does not apply to me. I sincerely believed in CS and therefore stayed entirely of my own free will. I don't think I am alone among the exers here. Ironically, one of the reasons I stayed in CS was the positive feedback and reinforcement I received from Sunday School teachers, practitioners, and church leaders including CS teachers and TMC Board members regarding my understanding of CS and ability to share it. I was class taught at 18 and President of my CS College Org. I wrote, directed, and presented various special productions at local CS churches. I served as chair and speaker at a couple of regional CS Org events. I also served as a chair for a regional "Healing Goals" meeting. For the regional activities, I worked directly with representatives of the TMC Board or members themselves. No one ever questioned my understanding of CS until I began writing in these forums. It was a pretty heady experience getting those kinds of strokes from those kinds of people. The irony of my CS past and Christian present (especially as co-moderator of these forums and officer in my church) often demonstrate to me how God can use anyone and anything to His purpose. So far, nobody has been able to convince me all those people were wrong. Another reason I stuck with CS was I knew nothing else. My interactions with mainstream Christians were largely negative. I'd see so-called Christians on my college campus swearing, drinking, drugging, etc. who would then preach at me about the apostasy of CS. Even the leaders of college missions next to the CS Org at my school presented mainstream Christianity in a very poor light. It was my friendships with Jews that years later led to me finding a new respect for God's word that superceded CS. Do Go Be Man <><
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Posted Tuesday, September 04, 2007 7:16 PM
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| Do Go Be Man, "No one ever questioned my understanding of CS until I began writing in these forums." And the reason for this- it's so much easier for them to question your understanding than their own. I know you gave a synopsis of your resume to validate your understanding of the CS view of God, but another point should be made as well- you gave up quite a lot when you "rejected" CS. Sort of like when Paul gave his impressive resume as a Pharisee in Philippians 3, & then said- "But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ." People don't give up hard gained lofty positions for mere idle notions but for strongly held convictions. Hey, I just compared you to the Apostle Paul. Does that count as a "stroke?" zoarean
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Posted Wednesday, September 05, 2007 10:18 AM
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I believed CS it had more good in it than bad. That’s why I stayed. I put the things I didn’t ‘get’ down to my own lack of understanding. I believed it was the nearest idea to the absolute truth. When I had objections I accepted them as part of the struggle.
I loved 'goodness' and therefore I deeply wanted to be good. Perhaps it was a pride thing. So I struggled to be good, and got a lot of validation from that, from helping in the church, writing for the periodicals etc. The reason I finally left had to do with realizing I had made a kind of god before the ONE God, by elevating CS and MBE to a kind of filter level, which obscured the light rather than magnifying it. All the Mrs Eddy library stuff made me feel the focus of the church was completely off in the wrong direction. I wanted to rely on the Bible and on Jesus. To pray in the name of Jesus Christ, not in the words of CS. I didn’t want to ‘declare’ the truth, because I didn’t understand it enough.
The ‘absolute’ and ‘relative’ differentiation wore me down. Instead of striving to be perfect I now strive to be fully human and I now believe this is what we all need to be, even if it means being weak and flawed.
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Posted Wednesday, September 05, 2007 12:35 PM
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Great responses so far. I relate to so many of them, even though I left CS while still in my twenties. As I have said on this forum before, my leaving had nothing whatsoever to do with finding the real meaning of the Bible...it was many years before I could even stomach the idea of religion. In my case, it was the cumulative effect of watching, and experiencing, so many failures to 'demonstrate' health and well-being. Even then, it was scary indeed to step out into the world having absolutely no experience with medicine, and few internal coping skills to substitute for 'knowing the truth'.
I watched my sibling spend two decades struggling to release CS, going back and forth every time fear loomed, and every time answers to life issues were not readily apparent. I believe others in my family remained because they simply knew no other way. I have heard several in the last few years reveal their fear of letting it go, even though it never 'worked'. They, too, feared the possibility of bringing even worse ills upon themselves for failing to understand and prove CS.
I believe that, in the years I spent in a CS church, there were many members who were marginal at best. They did not read the weekly lesson-sermon, attend lectures, subscribe to periodicals, or anticipate class instruction. They probably did not rely on CS for healing, either. They remained in the church until old age (I still see obituaries once in awhile that mention the church), but probably never truly practiced the teachings.
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Posted Wednesday, September 05, 2007 8:06 PM
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This is Anonymous 13895--how do you post your name?
Anyways, Anonymous 13914 and dawn comes, thank you for your thoughtful responses. I feel like I am understanding this more, now.
Anonymous 13914: So are you saying that you accept that you are inherently weak and flawed as a human being? Or that you strive to be weak and flawed because you are a human being? I think it helps to strive to be perfect, and not necessarily feeling crushed when we are not. Would you agree it makes people the best they can be when they strive for perfection, even though we know we cannot be?
And dawn comes: So is there really nothing through those years of your life you were a CSist that you felt was helped at all by CS? Did you practice very much? And why do you think you can assume that people you've never heard of who mention CS on their obituaries still never actually practiced? Isn't that presumptive? And what religion are you now, if I may ask? I wonder how many of them read, attend lectures, subscribe to periodicals, or anticipate in class instruction.
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Posted Wednesday, September 05, 2007 8:15 PM
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| Anonymous 13895, This is Anonymous 13895--how do you post your name? Look at the top of the page on the left. You should see a link to register as one of the options next to "Welcome Guest".Do Go Be Man <><
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