Posted Sunday, December 09, 2007 4:29 AM
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| Hi during my time with the CS church I did Not see One healing. Is this typical? HonestJohn
If Your Not In You Cannot Win
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Posted Sunday, December 09, 2007 5:59 PM
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| HonestJohn, Hi during my time with the CS church I did Not see One healing. Is this typical?
Based on my experience, I would say that is atypical. Wednesday evening testimony services were generally filled with claims of healing and gratitude to MBE and CS. Given the title you gave this thread, however, I'm not sure that addresses your actual question. Do Go Be Man <><
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Posted Monday, December 10, 2007 7:50 AM
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Hi during my time with the CS church I did Not see One healing. Is this typical? HonestJohn, My short answer is, "probably," if you're referring to healings that are truly the result of applying the principles of CS." But it's actually more complicated than that. Like Do Go, I heard a lot of testimonies of CS healing and have also read a lot of testimonies. Thinking back, I'm not sure how many of these can be verified as being the direct result of "applying the principles of CS" rather than the body just getting better or the CSist misinterpreting the problem in the first place. (For example, when my husband had a kidney stone I was sure he had appendicitis until I got him to the hospital. The next day he passed the stone and was instantly better -- which I would have interpreted as "an instantaneous CS healing from the belief of appendicitis" had I still been in CS.) I have also seen what I believe was divine intervention in my own life -- not CS related but because God was simply meeting a need at that moment of my life. Now that I have much better understanding of how the body works, it's obvious that much of what I heard and observed could be better explained by natural processes than by "CS healing." I now know that unless they need to be physically set, many bones heal themselves without any more help than just immobilizing the limb or not putting pressure on it. I now know that digestion problems and pinched nerves can get better over time. I know that initial diagnoses are often revised after further testing, so that if a person goes to the doctor once and then seeks CS treatment and eventualy gets better, he or she might be "healed" from what was an initial but incorrect diagnosis. (For example, I was once told I had a brain tumor which turned out to be someone else's test result. The problem was discovered within a day, but had I immediately turned to CS instead of following up with the doctor, I would think that I had been healed of a brain tumor.) Looking back, I can't say that I remember or experienced any healings that I can confidently point to and say, "That healing is the direct result of applying the principles of CS." The healings I have observed can be explained differently without much effort (and I'm not saying this in an attempt to downplay CS). What I HAVE observed is a lot of people dying in CS when trying to use it to heal problems like cancer.
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Posted Sunday, December 16, 2007 11:18 AM
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During my time in Christian Science (childhood up to my twenties), I also didn't see any healing which made me think "wow!, God must have been involved in that". Every "healing" I saw was either trivial - colds etc - or non physical. This is an appalling record for a church which cites its healing as the central "scientific proof" of its doctrines.
The really amazing thing is that so many people (myself included, until quite late in life) continue to believe in and rely on the healing process despite the lack of evidence of its success. Why this occurs is a fascinating topic, discussed in Linda's book "Christian Science: Abuse, Neglect and Mind Control". Our minds really are very strange things (yes, we each have a mind !).
For me, the instant I dared ask the question "have I been deceived/self-deceived all these years ?", the house of cards collapsed immediately. The only thing propping it up was my own effort not to allow myself to entertain thoughts which weren't consistent with CS teaching. All those things which would be blindingly obvious to an outsider - no real healings, bizarre interpretations of the bible - suddenly became blindingly obvious to me too. I'm sure the exit process is different for different people, but for me it was very quick. I can't tell you how much of a relief it is not to have to filter my thoughts to make them conform to an abstract reality which I can't see.
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Posted Monday, December 17, 2007 7:58 AM
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For me, the instant I dared ask the question "have I been deceived/self-deceived all these years ?", the house of cards collapsed immediately. The only thing propping it up was my own effort not to allow myself to entertain thoughts which weren't consistent with CS teaching. I think a great example of the denial you're talking about is the CS track record for healing cancer. In the fall of 1999, the CS Publishing Socitey published a special edition of the Sentinel with the title, "Cancer -- Healed." One would assume that the intent of this special magazine edition was to highlight the great track record that CS has in healing cancer -- and I'm sure that the CSists saw it that way. But as someone looking from the outside, I saw a different message. The "Cancer -- Healed" Sentinel was a third the magazine's normal size and contained only five testimonies of healing -- spanning over twenty years. This paucity of healings struck me as pathetic and supported my personal observation that CS actually has a very poor track record regarding cancer. I know of LOTS of CSists who have died from cancer under CS care. (In stark contrast to this, I have LOTS of non-CS friends who have survived cancer by getting timely medical care). The special CS Sentinel was an attempt to bolster the CS belief that CS has a great track record with cancer -- and apparently 5 success stories over 20 years was enough to keep the belief afloat. Never mind the huge number of failures over the same time period.
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Posted Monday, April 14, 2008 5:01 AM
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| My stepdad claimed a miraculous "healing" back in World War II. My grandmother claimed another back in the 1920s. My mom claimed that I had a miraculous healing at age 2 (in 1959), before I can remember. Of course, my mom also claimed that the "healing" of my broken leg was a miraculous "healing" in 1970, despite my being 6 weeks in a cast. The miracle was that I survived having to have the bone reset in the ER, 3 days after faith-healing didn't work, without pain medication. In my experience, the majority of the "miraculous healings" that CS reports happened many years ago. Maybe 1 in 10 of all people who attend a CS Church have reported a miraculous healing. 8 out of 10 never experience any healings in the CS church, and at least 1 or 2 out of 10 claim that they were abused or neglected as children when they grew-up in radical reliance on CS faith-healing. It is no wonder that CS membership is falling and church after church after church are closing their doors. 1 out of 10 is not enough to maintain the status-quo.
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Posted Monday, April 14, 2008 8:48 AM
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I have experienced healings in CS. That is, I have seen the power of prayer and healing results from prayer,
both moral and physical. I have felt that stirring of God in my life, as a result of prayer.
Although I have left the church, I believe there are many good people who are
Christian Scientists. I know them and love them. I believe that many of these people pray sincerely and humbly,
and receive answers.
But equally, we all know cases where praying did not lead to healing. But isnt this the case in every religion?
Many Christians pray to God, and sometimes the answers dont come as we hope they will.
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Posted Monday, April 14, 2008 9:09 AM
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| all in one, But equally, we all know cases where praying did not lead to healing. But isnt this the case in every religion? Many Christians pray to God, and sometimes the answers dont come as we hope they will. God answers prayers according to our needs rather than necessarily according to our wants.A story I think I've shared before and I'm sure you have likely already heard illustrates a significant differentiator regarding CS prayer... The river was rising and authorities broadcast an evacuation order. A man began praying while remaining in his home at the river's edge. As the water rose in his back yard, a policeman came to the door telling him to leave. The man said, "God will provide" and refused to leave. Later, a fireman in a rowboat came by as the water rose to the second floor of the house. Again, the man refused to leave saying, "God will provide." Much later as the man sat on his roof surrounded by water, a Coast Guard helicopter hovered offering a rescue sling. The man waved off the helicopter shouting, "GOD WILL PROVIDE!" Not too long later, the man found himself in Heaven with some questions, foremost among them was why God had not provided the rescue for which he prayed. His Heavenly greeter told him. "God provided a warning on the radio, a policeman at the door, a fireman with a rowboat, and a Coast Guard helicopter. Why did you not accept what He provided???" As a Christian, I pray for God to use His unlimited resources to provide my daily needs such that He may glorified and that I may enjoy Him forever. In CS, we prayed to be blinded to God's wonderous creation that CS might be glorified. Denial of creation and our need for God's grace is an essential element of CS "work". Do Go Be Man <><
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Posted Monday, April 14, 2008 12:15 PM
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Yes, that is a good illustration all right.
I suppose I was thinking in terms of say, people who are terminally ill, and pray, even when the medical profession has given up
hope for them. Sometimes such people are healed. And at other times, they are not. None of us really knows why one person dies
and another has a healing. And many people rail against God, or their religion, be it CS or another faith when such prayers are not answered as we hope. With good reason.
Has anyone ever read C.S. Lewis's book A Grief Observed. Or Phliip Yancey's Disappointment With God ?
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Posted Thursday, April 24, 2008 3:55 AM
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