 Posted Thursday, January 10, 2008 6:33 AM
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As a person married to a CSist, I would say, unless you want a life filled with spritual isolation from your spouse, DO NOT get married. I am living proof that it is a daily struggle and it becomes over minute issues, and just day to day the way CS think about life and the world around them is so far off the mainstream that it is exhausting.
I am doing everything I can to stay married so that I can ensure that my girls stay on the straight and narrow as I have seen the devastating effects of divorce on Children and I guess being a Catholic we have this overwhelming guilt trip about divorce.
Read my thread... "Married to a CSist and need help". Help has not arrived!!!!
SurferforJesus
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Posted Monday, January 14, 2008 9:03 AM
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BT:
My parents married in the 1940’s. My Dad was CS and my mother Methodist. What brought them together was there professional work, which was totally compatible. Religion would take a back seat, in other words, so they decided they would live with two separate faiths (unusual then-very common now) and raise two children in the middle of this.
Religiously, living in a “mixed” household, my sister and I were told we could basically “decide” which church we wanted to go to between to the two. My sister attended the Methodist Church on Sunday with my Mom, and I went to the CS Church. The latter was I think for two reasons: primarily, my Dad has his own business, so one of the few times I got to see him was on Sundays. Secondarily, CS’er’s seemed to really believe and practice something, which I didn’t find the few times when I went to the Methodist Church (forgive me for getting denominational). The end result? I attended CS Sunday school, until my late teens. I then became a “nothing”. I eventually became a Christian after reading a Gideon’s Bible cover to cover, and later on joined a Lutheran Church Missouri congregation. My sister attended the Methodist Church into her 20’s, and eventually became Catholic. (I don’t think our experience was atypical. I remember Dr. Laura saying and Dear Abby printing the results of a study awhile back that 80%+ of children who grow up in “mixed” households either end up with a different religious affiliation, or none at all.)
Medical issues were also ever present. My Dad had a burst appendix when I was three. He addressed it only through CS for nearly three days, when my mother threatened divorce if he wouldn't let her call an ambulance. He finally did, and he survived 5 hours of surgery somehow in the 1950's. If he hadn't, I would have been fatherless for my childhood. (Tell me where in the Bible is says such a scenario is required or even suggested?) As for us kids, my mom always made sure we went to Doctors, got our shots, etc. Imagine what this was like, however, in a household where your Dad didn't believe in such things?
As for CS and other denominations (correction-CS is not a denomination, it is a separate religion all its own), I grew up hearing nothing but contempt for those steeped in the “old theology”, regardless of Christian denomination (more subtle on the part of my Dad, less subtle on the part of CS Sunday School teachers, etc). The worst venom was reserved for the Catholic Church, but all were considered equally backward.
Two final questions you may want to reflect on.
You don't say how his family feels about him potentially marrying outside of CS. In my family's case, my CS grandmother made my mother's life miserable for the first 15 years or so of their marriage. My dad was also an only child, and was estranged from his cousins until the day he died. 'Not a happy situation.
Also, ask yourself if you would be considering something more permanent if he were a Scientologist, Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, etc.? The strange beliefs of these groups (and the necessity for their members to adhere to them) are much more known via the tabloids, politics, etc. CS is mostly under the radar screen, but their beliefs (definitely non-Christian) are harder to discern at first glance, since they call themselves, "Christian" after all.
Anyway, may God guide you as you go forth.
In Christ,
John
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Posted Saturday, January 26, 2008 8:16 AM
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| I am a Southern baptist who married a christian Scientest. I would like to let you know we have been married less than a year and are on theebrink of divorce. We have had seperate beds starting on the honeymoon. I woke up to find her sleeping in the car. She says that cs belive that sex between married couples is a sin and that cs are taught to live with out it. She is also very dominering and ioffers no sympathy when you are in pain of any kind. I waas helping move some things around and tripped and fell face first to the ground and had some bruises and cuts, her reply was get up you fell in gods hands you are ok. I would not recommend that a true christian marry a cs.
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Posted Saturday, January 26, 2008 9:49 AM
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Anonymous January 26, 2008 @ 10:16:10 AM,
I am a Southern baptist who married a christian Scientest. I would like to let you know we have been married less than a year and are on theebrink of divorce. We have had seperate beds starting on the honeymoon. I woke up to find her sleeping in the car. She says that cs belive that sex between married couples is a sin and that cs are taught to live with out it. She is also very dominering and ioffers no sympathy when you are in pain of any kind. I waas helping move some things around and tripped and fell face first to the ground and had some bruises and cuts, her reply was get up you fell in gods hands you are ok. I would not recommend that a true christian marry a cs.
Welcome to the forums. Sorry for your marital difficulties. Your story represents a really good reason why couples should have pre-marital counseling and explore each others beliefs before marriage. It also represents the cultural aberrations within CS. Brother, as harsh as I may sound, however, you need to consider your Christian obligations and work to preserve your marriage.
...God has called you to peace... how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?" 1 Cor. 7:15
I wish we could meet face-to-face and pray together. Your circumstances are so familiar.
No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it. 1 Cor. 10:13
CS does not teach that sex between married couples is a sin anymore than Paul taught it. 1 Corinthians 7 has a lot to offer regarding the principles of marriage that are often misinterpreted by CSists and others. In typical CS cherry-picking, your wife may be reading or been taught 1 Cor. 7:2 ( from : ), 1 Cor. 7:7 ( to first . ):
"It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman. I wish that all were as I myself am."
My CS practitioner, ex-mother-in-law taught this to my ex-wife resulting in a great deal of confusion. She also unilaterally decided to apply that to her own marriage. Of course, the context changes the meaning and portrays an entirely different picture of a Christian marriage. Even MBE did not teach abstinence, she did write:
"Chastity is the cement of civilization and progress. Without it there is no stability in society, and without it one cannot attain the Science of Life." S&H 57:1-3
Chastity and celibacy are not synonyms. Though sometimes confused with celibacy, chastity's primary definition addresses "unlawful sexual intercourse". Celibacy's primary definition addresses "the state of not being married". MBE was married and clearly expected other CSists to marry.
In my pre-believer, CS days, I turned to resources regarding sex such as "The Joy of Sex". Such works present a distorted, often anti-spiritual perspective of sex. Sex is a creation of God and does have spiritual purpose. The two books I now recommend are:
The Genesis of Sex: Sexual Relationships in the First Book of the Bible by O. Palmer Robertson
The Gift of Sex: A Guide to Sexual Fulfillment by Clifford L. and Joyce J. Penner
BTW, the current lead topic on Spirtuality.com (an official CS web site) is Marriage. I haven't read any other articles and they may well be corrupted by the cultural teachings rather than true CS.
Have you read the chapter on Marriage in S&H? Doing so is the absolute bare minimum anyone marrying a CSist should do. Reading S&H and attending CS services for a time should also be considered. You shouldn't agree with what you learn (unless you also find the rare Biblical basis), but you need to know what you're dealing with.
"Matrimony should never be entered into without a full recognition of its enduring obligations on both sides. There should be the most tender solicitude for each other's happiness, and mutual attention and approbation should wait on all the years of married life." S&H 59:1-6
I find a rare concurrence between Bibilical and CS teachings in the following passages:
"To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does,O) she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife. To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her. If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him. " 1 Cor. 7:10-13
"After marriage, it is too late to grumble over incompatibility of disposition. A mutual understanding should exist before this union and continue ever after, for deception is fatal to happiness." S&H 59:23-26
"Husbands and wives should never separate if there is no Christian demand for it. It is better to await the logic of events than for a wife precipitately to leave her husband or for a husband to leave his wife. If one is better than the other, as must always be the case, the other pre-eminently needs good company." S&H 66:21-27
May the LORD bless you, your wife, and your marriage.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Saturday, January 26, 2008 11:26 AM
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Hi. Just a few thoughts which may help.
It is also important to remember that the directives given in the Bible about marriage apply to both the husband and the wife. When one of the two do NOT follow those directives -- the wife does not "respect her husband" or the husband does not "love his wife", it is important to consider what the benefit of the marriage is to either party and especially to any children in the home. Also, will the marriage glorify God?
Since I am no longer a Christian Scientist, I put no merit in anything Mrs. Eddy says in her chapter on Marriage. However, God does not want us to be abused, mistreated or abandoned in a marriage, and the Bible makes this clear many times.
I was raised in a home where both parents were Christian Scientists and witnessed first hand how spouses can abuse one another and mistreat one another while claiming that they are only doing what they have learned in Christian Science. When your spouse (and/or child) is hurting or in need of medical attention, it is abusive to deny them of this, no matter how you may wrap it up in Christian Science doctrine.
True, Paul spoke about a Christian's need for remaining in a marriage when the other is not a believer, but he doesn't state that the Christian needs to suffer physically and emotionally at the same time while he is seeking to guide the non-believer to belief. The non-believer needs to be respectful and loving and receptive for any sort of change to occur.
It is wise to leave those who are cruel, thoughtless and severely mis-guided to Christ who will lead them into the truth when the time is right. Staying with one who is as our Southern Baptist friend stated does not help the Christian Scientist or benefit the one feeling guilty as his/her love slowly dies. Instead, it encourages the non-believer's current beliefs (after all, my spouse is still here, he/she must be happy and satisfied), and also causes stress in the home while creating darkness and pain in the heart and bitterness in the spirit.
Think of a plant sitting on a shelf that gets no water and no sunlight. How can it bring forth any flower that way? How can it be a "light unto the world" when it's starving in the darkness? Plus, in the event of children being brought into the family -- how can one who is never nurtured be the one who is relied upon to nurture? Won't work. And it is not what the Bible directs.
Grace
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Posted Saturday, January 26, 2008 12:37 PM
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Grace,
I was raised in a home where both parents were Christian Scientists and witnessed first hand how spouses can abuse one another and mistreat one another while claiming that they are only doing what they have learned in Christian Science.
I am very sorry that you suffered as a child through the false witness of your parents. Abuse and mistreatment have no place in any marriage and should not be tolerated by anyone.
The Bible does not teach us to merely rollover and accept abuse. Properly understood, even Jesus' seemingly pacifistic command to "turn the other cheek" represents strength, not weakness and acceptance of abuse.
Divorce, like marriage, in our modern culture is taken entirely too lightly without considering the personal, emotional, and spiritual costs. Satan loves divorce. While sometimes even Christians divorce, it should only be considered in context, in deep prayer, and in counsel with those who have legal, spiritual, and psychological expertise to offer.
Had I been counseling our anonymous brother before his marriage, I would have cautioned him regarding the actual and cultural teachings of CS. I would have counseled his wife regarding the Christian perspective of marriage. Were I a clergyman empowered to perform the ceremony, I don't know that I would have done so.
Our brother and his wife are now married. Jesus taught, "What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate." (Matt. 19:6) I could write about all the ills of CS as it related to my own first marriage and my mother's marriages, but that would not, by my perspective, be in line with what Jesus taught. Perhaps the day is coming when that marriage will be dissolved. Perhaps God has something else in His plan.
Jesus provided only one reason for divorce, "...whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery." (Matt. 19:9) Does the wife's unilateral abstenance represent immorality? 1 Cor. 7:3-5 may teach that:
The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
Were I able and invited to do so, I would be interested in the wife's perspective on what Scripture teaches regarding marital relations. She has likely never considered the Scriptural context.
MBE's chapter on Marriage is about the only of her works in which I see consistent glimmers of truth. That does not mean that I consider it a wholly (and certainly not Holy) reference on the spiritual and physical nature of marriage. Our brother's wife does, however, probably consider it such. To that extent, he should be aware of what it says. The flip side of that is that the wife should be aware of what he believes. He may, however, not be aware of what the Bible actually teaches about marital relations. From his postings, we don't know a lot about his circumstances.
God brought the two of them together. I cannot speak further to His intentions without unproductive speculation. In your plant in the darkness analogy, the possibility exists for the plant to be brought into the light and watered. At some point in time, the two of them had feelings for each other they chose to express in marriage. Perhaps God is working in their lives to bring them both into light and bring them water that they may never again thirst.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Saturday, June 14, 2008 11:32 AM
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My grandmother was CS, and she married a non-CS pharmacist (!). I'd say their marital happiness was mixed, but religion had nothing to do with it. She wasn't really radical CS. She did not try to prevent her children from receiving medical care of any sort. She did take them to Sunday School, but they never really got on board with CS.
Her sister is still living and is lifelong CS. She married a non-CS in her later years. No children. Very happy marriage for as long as he lived.
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Posted Sunday, June 15, 2008 7:38 PM
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| I feel compelled to respond to the poster's question. I married a Christian Scientist when I was 20. I had been brought up as a Lutheran...the kind who only go to church a few times a year...so not very churchy. My mother was not happy that I would be marrying into this religion though she adored my future husband so the objections were not pushed too hard. I would not have listened anyway. When you are in love you are in love and you arent thinking about what might happen way down the line. Also, I didnt know then what I know now. It was a big mistake for me. Because I grew up without a father, and had a stepfather who clearly favored my 1/2 sister, I needed a man who made me feel important to him. I didnt get that and it was because of Christian Science and the huge roll it played in my husbands life. My husbands parents were radical reliance, very very staunch CSers. So let me tell you what this meant...over time...for me. *If someone in my husbands family got sick, got poison ivy, had some kind of a problem...everyone knew about it but ME. No one was allowed to tell ME about it. I had joined TMC too...but I was not worthy to be in the know. When you have some kind of a problem ...in CS it has to be a secret. Funny though that everyone else in the family was allowed to be in on the secret but not me. See If *I* knew my thoughts would be an evil force. This is true...Im serious. *Grace is exactly right in everything she said....read her post again. *MY CS spouse would call his mother the practitioner for headaches, behavior problems with our children (things he should have talked to his wife about), situations at work, whatever. Over time it became a shutting out of me as a wife and helpmate. I was NO helpmate to my husband. MBE and his mother were his helpmates. *My husband has not had sex with me for 20 years. And oh yeah...I HAVE asked him to touch me, hold my hand, hug me, kiss me, make love to me, repeatedly...but nothing. Before I finally kicked him out of the house I asked him if it was CS...and he said.."I work daily against sin, disease, and physical sensation." So see how they think of sex? While they all might not think this way...lots do. There are plenty of posts here that reflect this same problem. It didnt start out this way between us...but clearly it was in his thought to become more spiritual. I sure didnt get what I thought I had married. *Your spouse might get some debilitating illness that she will suffer with for decades because she chooses not to go to a doctor for a simple fix. Are you willing to deal with that situation? This happened to me. *What about children and medical care? A Christian Science parent is likely to deny symptoms. A Christian Science parent will scold a child for crying when they get hurt....because the pain isnt real. *Then you have to consider way down the line when you both approach old age and the health problems start. Will you spouse refuse medical care? and can you stand to watch her die before your eyes because she wont go to a doctor. Please take time to consider what that is like and how you will feel...because it might happen. It happend to me. *I was always an outsider to my in-laws...always outside the inner circle of those in the true light. I was always told about what I should "KNOW" and what things I should pray against....the terrible evils that would befall my children if I didnt pray against them. CSers are very proud of their complicated intellectualized religion and have a way of showing their superiority in their voices, demeanor and actions. So get ready as you are definately below the salt. This isnt all CSers who act this way...but its not rare either. Find out if this person practices radical reliance and if so you have some serious thinking to do. It is a religion that I consider a cult...because people DIE and suffer needlessly. Please consider the word DIE as it might affect you and those you love if you bring Christian Science into your life. SQUARE PEG
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