 Posted Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:16 AM
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Wow! Reading your stories really makes me see a lot of the hypocrisy among Christian Scientists. My experiences have been way different, though. I was never abused. Never forced to suffer. Never lacked healing when needed. I remember being healed instantly of croup when I was 4 years old. I couldn't breathe one night. I woke up with paralyzed breathing muscles and ran to my parents. They called the practitioner. Instantly, I began to breathe normally. I never had croup again. I, too, got off on the drugs and rock and roll in the late '60s. I was arrested on my 16th birthday for possession with intent to sell, and my parents had me sent to juvenile hall. I realized that I wasn't the type that needed to be locked up. With my court appearance, my parents asked for the court mandated counseling be given by my Sunday school teacher--which the court accepted, and sentenced me to 1 year probation. I never took drugs, smoked, or drank again in my life. My probation officer took me off probation in 6 months. I went to A/U Ranches in their Conquerors sports program. In my senior year I played varsity football and ran the 1/2 mile in track. My grades turned around, and I graduated. I joined the Mother church in 1970 and the branch in 1973. When I went to University in 1974, I got caught up in the culture of the mid 70's and got away from church and the relationship-morality part of the Christian teachings. One night, I fell out of my loft bed in my dorm room and hit my head on the desk. I was in a stupor and bleeding from my nose for several days from concussion. A guy my age, who I met at the Claremont church, offered to pray for me, and I was healed. I had some other healings while at college--of poisoning and effects of a motorcycle accident. During college, a female friend in my major said that I had an eye condition that her brother also had. The doctors said that the condition was incurable and that there was no effective treatment. I had suffered with it since I became a teenager. I went to work at Broadview after college, and I saw some good healing there--and also some not healed. I married a nurse trainee, and we had 3 kids. We had some pretty good healings during our 8 years together--and 3 mostly harmonious at-home child births (with a doctor or midwife, of course). One healing we didn't have was our marriage relationship, though. But, I must say that not-married, we have become respectful friends. When I was single again, I confronted the eye condition one day while looking at myself in the mirror. I briefly gave myself a Christian Science treatment, which is a specific, focused prayer based on the perfection of God's creation, the perfectness and inviolability of the law of God, and fact that Immanuel, the Christ, was indeed, God with us--God's law enforced in the human situation. I do not know when the eye dandruff disease disappeared, but the next time I thought about it, it was gone. That was 20 years ago. My new wife--perhaps my only real wife--and I have also had some remarkable healings through Christian Science prayer, even though she is not a Christian Scientist. She has healed herself various times of diseases (that one would take over-the-counter medicines for) after reading Science and Health along with the Bible. We accomplished the rescue of two of her children from slavery in another country with the help of my Claremont friend, who is now a full time practitioner. The sequence of events including our being arrested and charged with kidnapping (her own children), having the right people appear miraculously and the right time when all hope would have otherwise been lost, and having the slave-holding people do everything in our favor--was nothing short of the finger of God directing activity--on earth as it is in heaven.
On another occasion, my wife went to rescue a daughter caught in a life-threatening situation in rural Veracruz, Mexico. With only the prayerful support of the practitioner, she set off. Again, marvelously, an angel-person appeared with the time and knowledge to drive to the countryside, find the young woman, and bring her safely back to the United States.
I read an article comparing the Christian Science viewpoint with the Bible. As a student of both for over 40 years, the viewpoints of both are quite congruent in my understanding. I do not see the conflict or disparity that others on this website put forth to separate Christian Science from the Christianity of the Bible.
Personally, I have not suffered the anguish of choosing between Christian Science and material medicine, nor have my children. Some people choose which mountain they want to die on--and they have their reward in heaven (the state of mind, I have experienced--the physical place, well, no). I have chosen surgery when the prayer and understanding that I had for healing purely in Christian Science was clearly inadequate. On the other hand, my children have been healed of conditions that the doctors could not even treat. One son was healed of a congenital heart defect after the doctors could do nothing. My youngest has experiences of healing of asthma, allergies, and recurrence of anaphylactic shock through prayer. Constant dosage with medicine reduced or prevented his symptoms. But last summer, he went for six weeks at a Christian Science oriented summer camp with no symptoms and no need for the medicine (which was available, if needed). He has increased in health since then, only experiencing minor symptoms, which were quickly dispatched through prayer. We are intelligent people, and we obviously would not fail to choose material medicine if its results were superior to healing provided through Christian prayer.
I don't think that Christian Science denies that the human being is a sinner, which conforms with the Bible. But God's spiritual creation, Man, is the one that is revealed through the healing of sin and sickness--" . . . now are we the sons of God."
It is unfortunate that some of you have seen Christian Science only as another dogma. Your parents, or others, who crammed "Christian Science" down your throats without the healing, were obviously wrong. When the Bible says that you have to be more righteous than the scribes and pharisees, I see that as needing be be at least as healthy as a doctor's patient as well. A sick and suffering Christian Scientist attains no nobility or righteousness because he suffers. And I have seen Christian Scientists commit to healing through prayer, situations and injuries that were beyond their demonstrated understanding. Christian Scientists should ask themselves, "Can you set a broken leg through prayer so that is will not be shorter than the other?" "Can you? Have you proved lesser feats through prayer?" My Claremont friend once healed a prison inmate of the pain caused by a bullet in his neck. The bullet, over time, migrated from his neck and came out of his ear. No surgery. My grandparents and great-grandparents came to Christian Science because they were healed of incurable medical conditions, not because of doctrine or dogma. I stick with it because of its practicality--because its prayer works for me and my family--and it works well. If it didn't, I would be--well, with you guys.
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Posted Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:11 PM
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| Anonymous post #14470, You sound like Don Pablo who also made post 14471 today. Welcome to the forums! I'm glad you have thrived in CS and that you have a good sense of when to use it and when to use "temporary means" (as Mrs. Eddy would say). I have to disagree that CS agrees with the Bible, as I have found that they only appear to agree because Mrs. Eddy has given her own meanings to biblical terms. But that's a discussion for a different thread... In any case, it's nice to have you here.
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Posted Friday, April 25, 2008 10:30 AM
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| Hello Mark, I am so glad to read your insightful posts. So many of us, especially those of us who grew up in CS "radical reliance" homes during the 50's and 60's experience horrible situations with illness and pain, and downright abuse and neglect. To live in a home where "Love" is constantly talked about with dreamy looks facing heavenward and where so little actual love is demonstrated is a hard thing. My mother was so obsessed with her teacher, her practioner, and the "who's who" of the church, all the while neglecting her daughters, one of which was being molested by her teacher. I was the younger daughter, and I just learned to fend for myself, but I sure can remember sore throats so bad I could not swallow, painful burns that got infected, and on and on. Why do you all suppose so many of us who have come out of CS have rejected any belief in God whatsoever? I spent many years as an unchurched skeptic until I finally came to the realization that I need God in my life, just not the way I had God in my childhood and my early adulthood. This forum has been a real blessing to me. Sharon
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Posted Friday, April 25, 2008 6:30 PM
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| Anonymous: That is an interesting post and I think it really highlights the fact that the church has done a poor job of getting its message across as well as insuring that its practitioners are truly healers. If it is the TRUTH then there should not be so many tragic outcomes. Maybe the church should take a good look at some guidelines for its adherents to follow. For example, what SHOULD a practitioner really do when it is quite apparent that the patient is dying and is suffering? Didn't somewhere MBE say it was ok for a practitioner to consult a doctor? Isn't there some duty as a human being to not let someone die when there may be even a remote chance that medical science can if not cure them, at least make their passing more bearable? How can letting a person suffer and die be the "LOVE" they so proclaim to practice. Can't they all be trained to at least impart the churchs teachings from the same page? I think so many of the ones "working" on a physical problem are so [expletive removed by moderator] afraid to use their common sense because that just boomerangs them right out the true doctrine. AND it seems to me that the ones who say, CS also stands for "common sense" should just move into mainline Christianity because the good parts of Christian Science are found there too. I just never saw it when I was younger because I was lead to believe that MBE really had some great original discovery revealed by GOD and there was no need to look anywhere else. I could bare the inconsistencies when it was just testimonies of colds, getting jobs, etc. That good stuff happens in other religions too. But in CS when the rubber really hits the road is when something REALLY life threatening presents itself. A lifetime of healing colds and finding keys does not always prepare even a lifelong, hard core CSers to heal themselves. I've seen it, I KNOW. I am pretty sure that God does not want a Christian Scientists to "work out his salvation" but destroying his or her own health or life entirely....what a cruel joke, which I would never believe God would play.
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Posted Saturday, May 24, 2008 7:50 PM
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| After reading these stories I'm relieved to know that I wasn't the only one told to just "know the truth" to relieve my physical sufferings. As a teeneger I also found out medicine could cure certain ills then strayed over into illegal drugs for a time and after that just couldn't relate to CS or any of its crazy beliefsanymore. It took falling to the bottom of the pit to realize my condition and to cry out for a Savior. Even though I was brought up in CS all my life...at that crucial point I asked Jesus if he was real would he save me. I was up in my bedroom late one nite after a party in 1978 and I repented of all sin....and guess what...I was saved instantly. There was no "knowing the truth" on that one. It was all about His mercy! Now that I think about it..."knowing the truth" theory is pretty arrogant. I guess if there is no sin there can be no repentance? What a bogus lie that is! More later on how I suffered so my parents could prove sickness was a lie...geesh I'm lucky I made it through. On a later note any oldtimers go to Crystal lake Camps in the late 60's early 70's. I did have fun there. It's the only positive thing I remember about CS. I don't think we as kids took CS to seriously...just kind of went through the motions. Would like to reunite with Crystal Lake campers...
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Posted Saturday, May 24, 2008 8:22 PM
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| Welcome to the forums, Inzane99! Were the Crystal Lake camps in PA? I went on a couple of ski trips to Pennsylvania with my CS youth group in about 1970 and 1971, and I'm trying to remember if that was the camp name (it sounds very familiar). It's wonderful that you found the Savior. You have given us some pieces of your story in a couple of threads today, and it sounds like you have much to share. I'd love to hear more about you -- would you be willing to start a new thread (perhaps titled something like, "new to forums -- Inzane99") and tell us some more about yourself? Linda
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Posted Sunday, May 25, 2008 7:52 PM
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Welcome Mark and Inzane99. I hope that you will both be helped by airing your experiences in a safe forum with people who understand. I won't repeat my own story here, but you can find it by searching.
I was thinking today about something that happened to me as a teenager. I was full of high-spirited hijinks as a teen, and made some ridiculous choices. One night I went with a girlfriend out to a river cabin in the middle of nowhere belonging to one of our boyfriend's parents. We met the boys there. They spent the first part of the evening scaring us with news reports of a crime that had happened nearby, and the rest of the evening irritating us in some way I can no longer recall. We decided to leave, and to get even with them we drove halfway down the long, dark driveway, then got out of the car and screamed a few times, slammed the car doors and sped off. We had a good laugh over that, and made the 45 minute drive back home.
She dropped me off at my house. I went in to find my parents pacing the floor anxiously....the boys had called them! Ooops. They thought we had been abducted. But here is the completely unexplainable part: instead of calling the police, my mother called her PRACTITIONER!!! My dad wasn't CS, and to this day I can't imagine why he went along with that decision. I doubt he would have gone much longer, but I still remember going to bed that night, pulling the covers up to my chin and laying there staring at the ceiling thinking "I could have really been in trouble and they called an old lady to give a treatment instead of the police!!!"
Now I don't think all Christian Scientists would do that....but at my house 'radical reliance' meant RADICAL!!
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Posted Sunday, May 25, 2008 8:18 PM
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| Dawn Comes: Your story reminds me about an article or testimony I remember reading in CS literature in the last several years. A little girl was abducted and the mom wrote about how they didn't call the police, just prayed. Of course, since the article made it into the literature, the little girl was returned safely, but a response like that just seems beyond any common sense! Why not call the police and pray? It seems that the community would appreciate the report so that if a child predator was loose, they could at least stop him. I found it really alarming that the church would allow it to be published. It was if they condoned the actions of the parents and they were setting an example for other Christian Scientists to follow.
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Posted Sunday, May 25, 2008 10:31 PM
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Dawn Comes: that testimony lead me to ask a lot of questions about the event.
Did the family know who abducted the little girl?
Was the little girl returned to her home by the abductee or abductees?
How old was the child?
How long was she taken for?
Would anyone of CS question the event?
It's not what is said, it’s what isn't said.
Jan
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Posted Sunday, May 25, 2008 10:35 PM
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Sorry meant to address the previous post about the little girl to Gentle Dove.
Jan
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