Church attendance - waxing or waning???
The Christian Way Forums
 Home          Members     Calendar     Who's On

Welcome Guest ( Login | Register )
        


12»»

Church attendance - waxing or waning??? Expand / Collapse
Message
Posted Thursday, April 24, 2008 4:41 AM Post #14472
Anonymous 
Last night, I attended a CS church in a large metro area (population probably 500,000) and there were FOUR people in the pews at the Weds Evening Meeting. FOUR! (Five if you count the usher.) This area is known for its youthful population and I was very surprised to see such a modest gathering.

For a time, I know that CS churches were waning and I'm wondering if that is still true.

Anonymouse
Posted Thursday, April 24, 2008 12:51 PM Post #14473
 

OldtimerOldtimerOldtimerOldtimerOldtimerOldtimerOldtimerOldtimer
The CS Church is continuing to shrink.
Posted Friday, April 25, 2008 1:35 AM Post #14483
 

NewbieNewbieNewbieNewbieNewbieNewbieNewbieNewbie
The decline in Church attendance is part of a continuing problem that first manifested itself in the late 1970s.  By some estimates, as many as 800 CS churches have closed their doors in the last 25 years.  Many others are on the brink of disaster from a financial standpoint.  Church membership in the US has fallen from a high of between 250,000 and 350,000 back in the 1950s, to an estimated 60,000 to 75,000 members today, with many of the remaining members beyond retirement age.  This has driven some factions of the CS Church away from tradition towards a more-inclusive view of MBE's teachings.

Several years ago, I attended a CS Church in the Los Angeles Metropolitan area, to hear my stepdad read.  It was my 2nd trip to this church in 5 years.  The previous trip had been to hear my mother read.  I had not been to any CS church since one trip to hear my dad read at a CS Church in Ohio back in the 1970s.  The LA-area population is in the neighborhood of 10 million people, and is fairly conservative from a political and religious standpoint.  This church is an older grand stone edifice, with a huge dome and a large pipe organ.  It could be described as palatial, with giant chandeliers, impressive stonework, and polished woodwork, though obvious signs of wear around the edges were beginning to show.  I spent some of the time taking a census of the parishoners, and spent more of the time estimating the building's seating capacity.  The seating capacity was between 1,700 and 2,000 people.  The attendance on this Sunday was 88 people, of whom 67 fell into the elderly category.  Because my folks are church Board members I also got to see their Sunday School on a tour after the service.  The total square footage in the Sunday School is around 4,000 sq. ft., with several smaller class meeting rooms adjacent to the main room.  The Sunday School that day had operated 5 tables, with a total of 5 to 6 seats each.  I've got enough space in my living room for a few small tables.  And this church is the sole survivor of what had been 3 grand Pasadena-area CS churches.  Both of the others closed for want of membership, and were integrated with this last CS church there.  So in actuality, the combined seating capacity of the 3 Pasadena churches was in the neighborhood of 5,000 people just 30 years ago.  And just several years ago, there were only 88 parishioners remaining at a regular Sunday service, with 75% of them over the age of 70 or 75, to fill the 1970s seating capacity of 5,000 or more.  If you figure an average attendance of 35% to 40% in 1973, there has been a 95% reduction in the average CS Sunday Service crowd in the last 35 years, in the area of Pasadena, CA.  My step-dad passed on last summer, so there is at least one fewer member these days.  I would guess, based on what I saw several years ago, that there are a few more members then that missing these days. 

The CS church that I grew-up in, in NW suburban Detroit, was new in a growing suburb in the 1960s.  It had splintered away from the Birmingham, MI church.  This church was much smaller, having a seating capacity in the neighborhood of maybe 400 people.  Back in 1970 an average Sunday service was over half full.  The Sunday School operated as many as 12 to 14 tables with 6 to 8 seats at each.  When I left this church in 1974 the metro-Detroit population was around 4 million people.  This church closed in the mid-1990s, as attendance had fallen by an estimated 80% by then.  The average Sunday adult crowd was down from 200 to 40 people or less, and the Sunday School average was off from around 90 kids to as few as 15 to 20 kids.  Many of the adults had become elderly, and many of their kids were no longer in attendance.  The story of the Franklin/Meadowlake CS church went from brand-new to bankrupt in under 30 years.  Yet it is not an unusual story in the CS Church.

Just four parishioners at a Wednesday night service in a mid-sized urban area?  If we assume that the average parishioner contributed $20 to the collection plate that makes $80.  Maybe they get double or triple that on an average Sunday.  It sounds to me llike this church is on the short list for extinction.  At that rate they can not possibly maintain the place.  All that it will take is a major building repair and it will be over.  I wonder how old the furnace is?  Or the roof?  Or the carpet?  It is a sad story, but unfortunately not an unusual story in the CS Church.  All across the nation, the CS Church is in various stages of collapse.  I wonder why?  Could it be that their message of "healing" is increasingly falling on deaf ears?  Could it be that there are too many victims of an unprovable concept and not enough grateful champions?  Have increases in medical science and a societal move away from religion in general made the CS message less acceptable than it once was?  Maybe the fact that many of us are such busy people these days, that we just don't have the time to commit half a day on Sunday to supporting any church, let alone that one.  Maybe food and fuel costs are robbing the collection plate and attendance?  Maybe Christian Science is almost an institution of the past already?

The CS Church is starting to remind me of the steel-making business in Youngstown.  All that is left are the memories of what once was.

Mark

Posted Friday, April 25, 2008 8:28 PM Post #14495
 

OldtimerOldtimerOldtimerOldtimerOldtimerOldtimerOldtimerOldtimer
Moderator's note: This is Post #14494, by "A watchful Christian Scientist." It was originally posted in the "Christian Colleges" thread.

This is my first posting to this page. I am a Christian Scientist. I happen to know a lot about the church in Pasadena, CA of which Mark speaks about. I know his facts to be incorrect and exaggerated. The church, at the time it was built in 1910 sat 1220. Today, after a major renovation back to its original beauty now seats 900 since some pews were removed. We have a nicely balanced membership of seniors and middle-aged people and young people and a somewhat active Sunday School. Are Sunday attendence adverages about 110 and about 70-80 on a Wednesday evening. We have ample funds to meet our needs and I can assure Mark that no one is throwing in huge checks into the church coffers on Sunday. By the way, Mark, we don't take a collection on Wednesday nights. You need to read your Manual more thoroughly.

Your stepdad did a wonderful job of reading. As a matter of fact, his readership is what attracted me to attend the Pasadena church. And your mother does much good in this church and blesses many people with her kindness and love.

I do wish you would be a bit more gentle about comments regarding your mother. She's a very loved member of this church.

Signed, A watchful Christian Scientist

Posted Wednesday, April 30, 2008 2:59 PM Post #14511
 

NewbieNewbieNewbieNewbieNewbieNewbieNewbieNewbie
You said an area known for its youthful population. Since the membership of the CS church is mainly past retirement age that may have been the problem. Prescott, AZ has a fairly small CS church, and is a town with a substantial retired population. St. Paul, MN is an area known for a substantial younger population, and only 2nd church remains in the phone book. Denver has a substantial vibrant younger and singles population, and in the last 30 years 6 of 8 CS churches have closed in Denver despite a four-fold increase in the urban population. And I've read an article that some staunch CS supporter wrote lamenting the lack of spiritual understanding in the heartland. It seems that CS is becoming a bi-coastal largely senior enterprise. The heartland is where much of the heaviest percentages of decline have occured. I've got to wonder what the average attendance is in Sun City, AZ? I would guess that they still draw fairly well there. (Until the current heartland ex-CS crowd begins to retire).

40-year plan? Boston real estate can be very expensive. I would guess the longest-lasting strategy would be one of cutting costs. Sell the high-cost properties and use the proceeds to fund lower-cost operations in areas where more seniors reside. Reform churches where medical science is accepted hand-in-hand with CS teachings? There have already been several defections from the CS church over time, and still a couple of these defectors operate churches. I would guess that the CS reform movement is heading in the direction of becoming a splinter movement. I'm sure that the more traditional elements of the Church will not embrace of tolerate the reformers survival moves.

All that we can do is hope.

Guy

[Moderator's note: This poster is known as Mark in previous posts]
Posted Wednesday, April 30, 2008 4:34 PM Post #14512
Anonymous 
Guy (or Mark),

Then, what do you make of the effort by the Mother Church to host a lot of youth conferences called Spiritual Activist Conferences. In April TMC had conferences in London, Washington, DC, Los Angeles, and Houston. It 's hard to tell from their website www.tmcyouth.com how many young people between the ages of 12 and 30 attended. Does anybody have any ideas of what they are trying to accomplish and whether it can succeed?

Steve
Posted Wednesday, April 30, 2008 7:21 PM Post #14513
Anonymous 
From what I can tell, it is just another name for Christian Science Lecture, but they have several going on in the same afternoon. I even saw a buffet line!!!!!
Posted Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:23 PM Post #14514
 

NewbieNewbieNewbieNewbieNewbieNewbieNewbieNewbie
Both Washington, D.C. and Los Angeles fall into the bi-coastal category. Houston is also a fairly conservative town, so are Dallas and San Antonio. It looks to me that your claim of a bunch of conferences is a little overblown. The New Life Church in Colorado Springs has more youth conferences every weekend than 3 in the US and one in Europe. And they only have a membership of 20,000 people, yet they average a Sunday attendance of 2/3rds of the gross membership.

I just don't see how a few youth conferences yearly will ever draw enough people to join the CS Church to save it.

I was reading a book about the history of the AU camps in Buena Vista. It seems that they refer to the 1970s as the glory days. There has been a steady decline in attendance since then.

Ask why Daycroft School in Greenwich, CT and the Desert Sun School in Idyllwyld, CA both went under in the early 1990s. I believe that it was something to do with a lack of students. Principia and Clairborn survive though.

The Church is well within its rights to try to reach out to new groups in order to survive. The market for non-medical "healing" is a declining market, I feel. Three generations ago there were plenty of people who distrusted the medical community. Sure, there are a few issues that the medical community still doesn't fully understand. But you'll have to admit that there has been quite a bit of advancement in the medical community since the 1950s or 1960s. And that there has been quite a decline in Church membership since then too, as the elderly supporters die-off.

I was in Boston to celebrate the completion of the first phase of the Church center project back around 1970 or 71. Now they are trying to lease a substantial portion of the remainder that hasn't been leased already. It is such a shame but they can't continue to survive forever while sitting on their hands watching the elderly membership dying-off. For every 10 children raised in the Church in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, only 1 is still attending there. My own aunt, my dad's sister, left the CS Church back in the 1950s, despite the position that her own dad was in at the Monitor. The loss of membership trends began many years ago It's nothing new.

Maybe you might do better as a splinter group than trying to embrace non- traditional CS groups. Remember, there is a very traditional group of Church elders that is not likely to see things the new way.

I'm not out to fight you, I'm just looking for an ex-CS support group. You have your beliefs and I have mine. We both have a right to our beliefs. I do not recall the miracle of healing in my upbringing. There are others recently who would do well as the new messiah, as they have been healed of so many things. In the middle of the nation there has been a near-collapse of CS. Still the Church clings to life in the Northeast and the far Southwest. One area is quite liberal, the other is quite conservative, politically. I don't see what these diverse areas have in common. Yet both together comprise the most active areas of the US for CS members.

The message didn't work and was highly abusive in my upbringing, and now all three children of a respected Teacher are on a short list to publish their stories in mass media. This is a controversy that can't be resolved peacefully as long as people from your Church continue to try to discredit people in ex-CS support groups. We were once one, but now we are separate. Why can't you folks just let us go instead of constantly trying to fight us or get us to come back?

Biff

[Moderator's note: This poster is known as Mark in previous posts]
Posted Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:28 PM Post #14515
 

NewbieNewbieNewbieNewbieNewbieNewbieNewbieNewbie
Oh, by the way, I would find ages 12 to 30 to be a fairly broad definition for "youth group". Why don't you see if you can find some corresponding information on their chance for success in the Globe or the Boston Business paper?

The Church has been resting on its laurels for some time, probably way too long. Is it too little, too late?

Biff

[Moderator's note: This poster is known as Mark in previous posts]
Posted Thursday, May 01, 2008 6:31 AM Post #14517
 

OldtimerOldtimerOldtimerOldtimerOldtimerOldtimerOldtimerOldtimer
The Church has been resting on its laurels for some time, probably way too long. Is it too little, too late?

Actually, the CS Church made a big recruiting effort in the 1990's and early 2000's under the leadership of Board of Directors Chairman Virginia Harris. The Church started selling S&H in secular bookstores and started marketing it as a self-help book for a host of everyday problems (marriage, finances, relationships, you name it). It also courted New Age seekers.  For some details, see the "Mainstreaming the Church" section of my article, Christian Science: Attempting a Comeback which was published in 2001.

The CS Church continued to decline despite Virgina Harris' efforts.

« Prev Topic | Next Topic »

12»»