 Posted Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:34 PM
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Glorabunda (1/5/2009)
Over the Christmas holidays I receivedsome family information that my Dad, deceased in 1986,had attended and participated in aChristian Science church. So yesterday my friend and I visited the Christian Science Church in my hometown of Montclair, N.J. just to check it out. I've had exposure to many different faiths and worship experiences and this was very unhappy. There were about 30 people in attendance. Beautiful but spartan, huge, cold building. Twopeople took turns reading responsively, there was bout 10 minutes of collective prayer and three hymns. Hardly anyone under my age (50); almost all single older women, most elderly. The man who seemed to be the primary reader would read and then stand there transfixed, as if he could see something that the rest of us were not privy to. One soloist sang a beautiful song about the Great Commandment. When the service ended ( at precisely 11:30, having begun precisely at 10:30 )about three people shook hands and everyone charged for the exit silently. There were no announcements of upcoming events ( potluck supper, Bible Study group, ladies benevolence, knitting circle, men's corner, etc.) so we assumed that nothing is happening. My friend asked the usher if she could compliment the reader on his reading( the readers disappeared through a separate door before the service finished), just to befriendly and was told "They don't appear in public" as if the readers were, well, apparitions, maybe. It was allso stale and cold and unfriendly that I felt sad for hours afterward. The next day I mentioned my visit to another teacher at my school who is deeply pious and she replied "Don't tell me, I went there two years ago and it was the same.Later on I realized that it was like being in a giant funeral home" and that summed it up precisely. I am not writing this to hurt or offend anyone but I am puzzled by how this church can sustain itself and/or grow to pass down its heritage to younger generation. I'm sure there are devout worshippers there, but honestly a lot of the older folks just looked like they needed a hug and someone to hold hands with them for moral support during their prayers.Clearly a very private party, to which, really, no one is welcome at all. Sad.
Glorabunda,
I also attended a CS church recently but it was a Thanks Giving service. The service you described was almost the exact same style including a soloist that was behind a wall on the stage that came out to sing. It was a very dry service but they did pass around a microphone so that the attenders could share what they were most thankful for in their lives. There were about 18 people in the whole building and 3 were under eighteen years of age and two were in their forties. The remaining people were 50 or older with half of them being well over 60. When I left the church I told my wife that this was the most dead church I have ever seen. She was quite disturbed and now she hopes this church will last through her life time so she wont have to drive 40 miles each way to the next nearest church. I have heard that a few people in the church would like to modernize the services but with such a small group of people a church split would be the most likely outcome and would likely be the end of this local church. I did not have a chance to socialize with anyone but maybe if I attend again sometime in the future I will.
May God Bless You,
Swingdancer
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Posted Friday, January 09, 2009 7:52 AM
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| Glorabunda, The service has never changed in my lifetime and I am 63 years old. As a child I would do just about anything to keep from going to church because it was so boring. As to the socializing, my mother always said that "Mrs. Eddy" (our beloved leader) said that nothing should socialize religion. So we didn't have church picnics or the like. Now there was, of course, the socializing of running down to the practitioner's house to sit for hours talking, smiling and looking heavenward with fixed smiles on our faces. There were also many trips to my mother's CS teacher's home while I sat outside the room for hours. I don't know what went on in there, but I imagine it was more of the same. But.....no picnics. LOL  Sharon
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Posted Friday, January 09, 2009 10:12 AM
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From my current perspective, I recall Christian Science services generally as described. I do not recall any changes over my lifetime and am under the impression they have not changed since Mary Baker Eddy's time. As well crafted as it is, The Manual of The Mother Church pretty much ensures the church is locked into the 19th century.
Looking back at traditional Christian services of the 19th century and comparing them to contemporary Christian services may provide a different perspective on this discussion. I don't know if my great grandfather who was a conservative Christian pastor in Mrs. Eddy's day would approve of the form of worship of my conservative Christian church. I think he might be surprised at our praise music and casual dress. While our pastors usually wear suits with ties when preaching (never robes), our Elders have been known to serve Communion wearing jeans.
Christian Scientists, at least in appearances, hold faithful to the traditions of their church. While misguided, they have not departed in the manner or degree of probably a majority of mainstream churches. The Christian Science movement has waned in their faithfulness while many mainstream churches have waxed in their departure from faith.
Do Go Be Man
<><
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Posted Friday, January 09, 2009 12:09 PM
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I remember being grateful I could go to Sunday School until I was 20, because the Sunday School was more interesting than the church services.
I visited my best friend's church (Episcopalian) and was surprised at the ritual, and that the kids in Sunday School were coloring in coloring books! That seemed much too un-serious to me!
We always had running jokes about my father falling asleep in church services. When I started attending at 20, I had trouble with falling asleep too. Later, I was a Second Reader, also, and it was even boring then! Also, oddly, my nose used to drip whenever I read, which was pretty embarrassing when the First Reader sneaked me some Kleenex to wipe my nose and I was sniffling throughout the service! I was told it was Malicious Animal Magnetism. The beginning of the end of my CS devotion was when I discovered Dristan for my chronic sinus problems. Ahh, relief!
But when I was Second Reader, we used to go back to the Readers' Rooms after the service, but then we could come out and talk to people -- I don't remember anything about "not appearing in public." I think we were supposed to do prayerful work right after the service, but then I had to leave the building and meet up with my husband at some point, and he was always talking to people after the service.
As for socializing, I mostly socialized with other CS's by chatting after church services, and by going to the A/U camps and Principia.
I remember that my husband (also raised in CS) became disenchanted with the CS church services, because he said he resented being told that if he found them boring, it was because he wasn't approaching them with a mindset that was spiritual enough. He said why should he blame himself that the services were boring?
Ann
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Posted Friday, January 09, 2009 1:00 PM
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At our church, children were strongly discouraged from attending the 'adult' service. I can remember my mother tactfully steering the children of the (relatively few) visiting families back to the Sunday School room. Sunday School was held at the same time, so there was no option for both.
I can remember how odd I thought it was as a child to visit my friends' churches and see adults sitting around tables in Sunday School classes!
My experience, until I was older, was mostly the excruciatingly boring Wednesday evening service. I can still remember how uncomfortable it
was to sit there and wait in utter silence for someone to speak...and how often I heard the same testimonies repeated.
It is only now, looking back with a different perspective, that I can imagine what a shock the entire thing must have been to anyone visiting from a different denomination. The solemn readers instead of pastors, no sermon, unfamiliar hymns, a formally-dressed soloist instead of a choir, no children in worship, no center aisle....! Friends who visited Sunday School with me always expressed surprise at the absence of art materials, books, curriculum leaflets and snacks! There was no kitchen in our church...no need for it.
Now I can see how valuable the fellowship/coffee time following our worship service truly is. In fact, just remembering the Sunday mornings of my childhood makes me appreciate the entire messy, loud, active, lively and inclusive Sunday mornings I experience today!
It is my understanding, too, that nothing can change due to Mrs. Eddy's manual instruction. I seem to remember mention on this forum in the past from those still in CS, though, that things have begun to change a bit. I'm not sure how they can do without overriding the manual, but it can only help.
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Posted Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:45 PM
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Your speaking of the Wednesday evening services reminds me that it was so embarrassing when there were visitors and someone would give one of THOSE testimonies, like:
The dog gave birth to puppies, but the poor puppies were blind, so the testifier prayed and read Science and Health, and then, a few days later, the puppies' eyes opened and they were HEALED! I'm so grateful for Mrs. Eddy and Science and Health!
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO embarrassing................
Ann
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Posted Wednesday, January 14, 2009 12:36 PM
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Here’s my thought concerning Christian Science church services. I guess I could say and I think accurately that my life during the week is busy. Not unlike anyone else I suspect. I go to work, talk with people, socialize, watch TV, read several newspapers on line, and I guess most of this can be pretty much described as keeping up with human affairs. And to go a step further unless I’m doing so from an ameliorative perspective my participation in these is primarily for entertainment purposes. Perhaps even voyeuristic one might say. Certainly not for sensational reasons, just being non-committal. The bulk of my life is spent viewing something “out there”, so to speak, being entertained with little time devoted to self examination and my personal relation with God. Oh, I try to take time to be quiet, I do read the Lesson every day, but I yearn for more, to be alone with God, but the distractions start, the phone rings…bills are due…I just have to get groceries…I watch the grandkids…will I lose my job…I get cut off in traffic…the car starts making a noise…I wonder what the dog is barking at…and before I realize it another day has passed. Oh well, I’ll try to take some again time tomorrow. Day after day this the standard drill. Then Sunday comes. Thank God for Sundays! And I say this with all sincerity, because I know that on Sundays I can go to church, arrive a bit early, sit quietly and finally, finally take the time I’ve been trying to take all week, to listen. And I also know that the whole service will provide the atmosphere to continue this special time with God. I’ve attended church services of other denominations, lots of them throughout my life, and I can say that without exception no other church service provides for me in the way I need. Business matters are discussed, reports from members, who’s sick, who’s in the hospital, who’s out of work and needs money for groceries, intermingled with this is the flurry of activity taking place, until finally for 15 minutes, maybe, the Sermon. And then the whispering, coughing, loudly clearing throats, people getting up and leaving, people coming in, sound systems failing, or screeching. Busy, busy, busy, busy… There’s a constant hum of activity even during the most revered time of the service, just like the rest of my week has been. And frankly I don’t experience the restful, refreshing time that I need from my church experience. And rest is important. Even God rested. When Jesus returned from prayer at Gethsemane and found his disciples sleeping he asked them, “Could you not watch with me one hour?” Really, is giving God one hour, one hour, of complete devotion asking too much? There’s 167 other hours during the week to socialize, to be entertained, to discuss business, hear reports, discuss sick friends, etc…The Christian Science church service is God’s hour and to me it is anything but boring. I’ve been a Christian Scientist for a long time, and I’ve heard all the complaints and criticisms about the services, but my assessment is that the people who complain and criticize and find the services boring are the ones who don’t take the time for quiet reflection with God and perhaps may even find doing so a little intimidating to them. (I know I used to be one of them.) It’s just easier and less threatening to keep being entertained by outside distractions rather than laying everything on the altar… the opinions, long held feelings, shortcomings, intimate hopes, human emotions, deep seated fears and worries, all of which will surely come to the surface in some way at some time in each of our lives. The services in Christian Science churches allow for quiet focus, deeper devotion, to actively yield to divine Love who will gladly carry all that I’m ready to surrender.
And this is just the Sunday service. Wednesday’s are a whole other story! Both services are God’s gift to all!
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Posted Wednesday, January 14, 2009 1:03 PM
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| Some people, not just the Christian Scientists, do prefer a more solemn service. I have seen mainstream protestants offer traditional and contemporary services at separate times. I don't think that one way of worship means you are a better Christian or have a closer relationship to God. I do take issue with your comment that "people who complain and criticize and find the services boring are the ones who don’t take the time for quiet reflection with God and perhaps may even find doing so a little intimidating ..." That is such a classic Christian Scientist's comeback ...you just arn't good enough spiriutually, we Christian Scientists understand it so much better!
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Posted Wednesday, January 14, 2009 2:03 PM
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Anonymous January 14, 2009 @ 3:03:52 PM,
Some people, not just the Christian Scientists, do prefer a more solemn service. I have seen mainstream protestants offer traditional and contemporary services at separate times. I don't think that one way of worship means you are a better Christian or have a closer relationship to God.
I agree that variations in services do not necessarily represent apostate teachings or superior spirituality. I think I recall reading somewhere that we all fall short of God's glory (probably in the general neighborhood of Romans 3:21-31).
My current church used to conduct an early traditional service and a later contemporary service. We now mix traditional and contemporary in three services. There is no way to please everyone all the time. I'm much more concerned with the content of our services than the form anyway.
There are traditionalists who object to our lack of emphasis on "Sunday-go-to-meeting" wardrobes, but they appreciate the solid Bible teaching and Bible based worship available. Before attending my current church, I attended a couple of churches where everyone dressed just so. Problem is their sermons and services were as cold as their manner of dress. Most members of the congregation demonstrated great tonsorial sense, but were incapable of discussing God's word in any depth (those 8 or 9 Suggestions in Exodus just confused some of them).
According to my read of the Bible, church should provide worship, prayer, teaching, and fellowship (Acts 2:42-47). I never had a sense of worship from Christian Science services. Prayer was according to the Christian Science way. Teaching was obscure and coded in correlative passages. Fellowship seemed to be a secret though tolerated sin of some sort.
In my current experience, I find a sense of awe and respectful worship of God. Prayer and teaching are in line with my understanding of the Bible. My brothers and sisters in Christ provide strong fellowship and support in my Christian walk regardless of whether I'm running or stumbling.
Perfection is not something I claim any more. I am God's child, but will not be perfect until He welcomes me home and that by His Grace and His Son's blood.
Do Go Be Man
<><
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Posted Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:38 PM
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| My background is mixed: raised Roman Catholic but as a young child I also accompanied my grandmother to Friends (Quaker) Meeting and learned to adapt to and love their simplicity: a silent hour of expectant, inwardly radiant prayer. I still seek out this Sunday oasis from time to time---to worship, not to recoup. Yet, when that hour ended, ( with a handshake as a concluding signal) F/friends flocked to share fellowship with one another. (well, it was farm country and other than at Grange you didn't see people much, if not at Meeting)When a long time old curmudgeon once grumbled about the "frivolity" of the fellowship hour and what a distraction and dilution it was, etc. a 99 year-old Friend heaved herself up on her cane and said something to the effect of "Well, in the Bible, the Good Lord says for us to love one another. This might not be happening for everybody, everyday out there but for one hour a week, right here we can do what He says and make it happen. Otherwise, how in the devil are the folks we just prayed with gonna know that we really love 'em?"
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