 Posted Thursday, January 15, 2009 8:42 AM
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Leaner, except for the fact that I don't own a television and I don't have grandchildren yet, my week looks pretty much like yours. And I don't read the weekly Lesson Sermon any longer....I read daily devotionals and the Bible. It is, for me, definitely a half hour or more each morning of quiet time and reflection. You can't, of course, assume that people who find the weekly Christian Science services cold or dull or repetitive (after all, we read the same passages all week long before we got there) are not taking time for reflection, or are 'intimidated'. If the service works for you, I am glad.
I actually don't experience the corporate prayer time, when we as a body lift up the concerns of our fellow man, as 'entertaining', nor do I consider those shared concerns to be 'distractions'. To me, the Christian experience is about sharing all of it...the joys, the needs, the sadnesses. I love to hear visiting missionaries tell us about their experiences in other countries. I love to pray, as a congregation, for them. I enjoy the visits of the Habitat families who share their gratitude for the Christian love expressed to them by the united efforts of nearly every church in our community. I will say that the Christian Scientists are absent from that group.
There have been so many new opportunities for worship and learning for my family here....Walk to Emmaus retreats, community Taize worship services, Bible studies in different churches which are open to all. Most of all, though, I think I appreciate the hands-on giving of love in the form of lay ministry, Habitat homes, communion and services at nearby nursing homes, workdays at one church (with community wide denominational participation) to prepare school materials to be given to children whose families cannot afford them, food pantries and gift baskets for the nearest women's shelter, and so much more.
Although my main reason for leaving CS behind is the fact that I believe, simply, that it is false doctrine (and ultimately harmful), I think I was missing so much when, in CS, my main focus was always on...me.
Glorabunda, I loved your story!
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Posted Saturday, January 17, 2009 12:16 PM
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"As well crafted as it is, The Manual of The Mother Church pretty much ensures the church is locked into the 19th century."
How true this is! The church I attended was very divided as to whether or not to use more contemporary music, recorded music, or the traditional soloist during services.
This led to a discussion about CS churces in other countries, particularly Africa where the use of drums is a very important part of their culture including during worship. There are CS churches that use them during the service because that is what people can relate to. (I have not researched the use of drums in churches there so I don't know if it's true or not, but it doesn't change the discussion we had.) Not to mention that pianos and organs are expensive and do not do well in climates with high humidity and no air conditioning. There was a lot of shock expressed that a church would deviate so much from the clearly written instructions in the Manual. Completely missing the point in my opinion!
However, nobody was bothered by the suggestion that we use recorded music, which is also not included in what MBE says is ok to use in the services. That was rationalized by saying that recorded music didn't exist when she wrote the Manual so it didn't count as a violation to use it.
Often it is the 'letter' rather than the 'spirit' that becomes the most important thing and I wonder if that is what people sense when they visit a CS church and feel ignored by the members or bored and confused by the service.
It is all well and good for the reader to welcome visitors, but to then tell them to introduce themselves to an usher after the service seems a little unwelcoming. As if the members themselves don't really know who they all are enough to welcome someone they don't recognize.
I bring this up because when someone suggested that we have a welcome table in the foyer for visitors to 'check in' prior to the service and be welcomed and recognized, it was not in the Manual so we couldn't do it. Same with trying to have a Sunday School picnic (not a church picnic), or host a Principia Club Christmas Sing in the Sunday School as other CS churches have done. (Same shock expressed at those, and 'how could they DO that?!?!')
To me that says some churches are trying, and I would assume those are probably the churches with larger more active Sunday Schools who recognize the need to branch out and MEET people outside of church.
Does that mean those who don't strictly adhere to the Manual aren't real CS churches anymore? If everyone thinks like my old church did about the drums in African churches, then I guess the answer to that would be yes.
Is it any wonder that CS church attendance is declining? There are so many ways people isolate themselves in today's society and to go to a church that contributes to that feeling of isolation kind of defeats the purpose of going to church in the first place. You go to learn about, feel, and practice expressing brotherly love in addition to getting uplifted spiritually. To me, they are the two sides of the same coin. If you can't even do that at church during a service how can we expect people to be able to do it outside during the week?
I don't think that inspiration needs to be a strictly private thing and going through a challenging time in your life shouldn't neccesarily be private either. I think hearing about what needs there are in the community and in the congregation are important. Praying together about those needs gets everyone started on the same page, and then you can go take the practical steps of lending a helping hand.
Sorry this is so long, I just feel strongly that for my family it is important to start going to a church with a service that does include all of the above and I especially want my own kids to see everyone coming together to help.
I don't have the Manual in front of me, but there is something in there about TMC members belonging to organizations outside of CS. So I guess I was in violation of that as GS troop leader, secretary for Little League, and on the PTSA board at the elementary school and etc.
Again, is it any wonder CS church attendance is declining? I think people are starting to wake up. I'm certainly grateful I did!
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Posted Thursday, February 05, 2009 1:34 PM
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| http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/31/AR2009013100872.html "GARDEN GROVE, Calif. -- Once one of the nation's most popular televangelists, the Rev. Robert H. Schuller is watching his life's work crumble." "The church is in financial turmoil: It plans to sell more than $65 million worth of its Orange County property to pay off debt." So, what do we do? Is there an answer to whatever seems to be working against active, conscientious outreach? Leaner
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Posted Thursday, February 05, 2009 2:51 PM
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Leaner,
So, what do we do?
I've not been a great fan of Dr. Schuller even from my days as a Christian Scientist. He seems like a good man, but I've had difficulties reconciling his theology with the Bible at times.
There have been and are any number of Christian ministries dependent upon the personalities of the leaders and founders that illustrate the dangers of reliance upon man rather than Jesus Christ. Departure from Jesus' teachings is always a red flag.
... Jesus began to say to them, "See that no one leads you astray. Many will come in my name, saying, 'I am he!' and they will lead many astray ... if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect. But be on guard; I have told you all things beforehand." - Mark 13 (English Standard Version)
Of course, I encourage you to read the full context not just the cherry picked summary I provided. Not saying that Schuller or any particular teacher is such, but you can use Biblegateway.com or your own Bible to search and study what God has to say about the surety of the appearance false prophets and false teachers.
Do Go Be Man
<><
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Posted Sunday, February 22, 2009 3:40 PM
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Learner,
what are doing on this forum anyway?
Just trying to re-convert us misguided, ignorant, spiritless pathetic losers? You belong with your own kind, the ones who don't know boring if it put them to sleep for a full hour! Or just trying to annoy people?
Get a grip and get a life, like the rest of us did. You (oh so metaphorically here!) are the reason most of us left the comatose, disease ridden, lying about everything CS church in the first place.
You are here to defend it and build it back up to its historical magnitude???? Or just to save one misguided (but happy) defector and bring him back to MBE (your real God) through weekly attendance with 10 or 20 other hunched over gray haired die-hards nodding away on Sunday morning for your one peaceful hour with God that you ASSUME we don't have? What condescending bunch of useless words you spew.
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Posted Monday, February 23, 2009 11:59 AM
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I'm not sure what I have to contribute to this conversation, but since I've been on both sides of the fence, in a variety of towns, I'll try.
I'm one of those who loved the services, and "ate it all up." I'd been reading the full Bible lesson every day since I was 10. I'd found that you get new things out of it even on the 7th reading of the week, so I listened, and prayed along with it.
Now, as a Christian, I'm in a position to do a similar thing - and I still love it. If I want I can sit for hours in a quiet church, with others in prayer; or go to the donuts & coffee or festa or other things our church does for the kids and those who wait for them; or go to Bible study; or sew with a group that does charity for terminally ill in a local place. There are so many types of Churches out there, that finding what you crave is only a matter of not giving up.
As for the CS Churches, and their attendance, as a child, I saw Sunday Schools with as few as 2 or as many as 100 or more. Depended on the families in the town, and what else was there. Sometimes I was one of half a dozen, and sometimes it was just my brother and I (with separate teachers thanks!)... Like some other institutions, you got out of it what you put into it, and I learned that early on. I'm sure they miss the people who left during the past 10-20 years.
The thing that gets me, is the Christian Church is under some of the same attendance problems and challenges (worldwide). It really makes sense to focus our efforts on helping out in our own households before pointing the finger at the church we all left. It almost sounds like gossip to be minding their business, when we really aren't part of it any more.
Please don't take that wrong, but I'm just concerned.
if we're trying to learn from them, that's one thing. Most sincere CSists I knew wouldn't dream of leaving it even if they were the only ones left on the planet. In my own church, a number of private schools have had to be closed. That from a church that knocks itself out to help the poor, and reach the kids, and be there for the adults. Literally, if you were starving, and you came to their door, they would feed you, and see about helping you find shelter. I never found the CS churches doing anything like that; and rarely did I see its members go that far. St. James has stuff to say about withholding actions.
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