 Posted Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:47 PM
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| A previous post made the statement: Since God is eternal Life itself, to Him/Her there is no death. Your uncle can feel this love just as much now as anytime previous to his passing. The above statement agrees with CS beliefs, but it disagrees with the Bible. I'll start with a statement from Hebrews: "Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him." Hebrews 9:27-28 (emphasis added)
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Posted Friday, May 09, 2008 2:56 PM
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| Dear Linda, Thanks. I'll check that out in my NIV, it has a lot of comments to related passages and their connections to other parts of the Bible. If I see something interesting, I'll add on.
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Posted Monday, May 12, 2008 1:53 PM
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CS views death as a misconception, but the Bible views both physical death and spiritual death as real. In fact, the Bible says that we all start out spiritually dead -- separated from God and in a state of rebellion against Him. I'll give a few Bible verses to illustrate both physical and spiritual death.
The reality of physical death
Jesus physically died on the cross. The apostle John points out that "when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water." (John 19: 33-34) At the time John wrote his gospel, gnosticism and Docetismwere problems in the Christian church, and John probably pointed out the blood and water as further proof that Jesus was, in fact, physically dead and not just in a swoon.
Throughout the Bible, physical death is presented as what it is -- the end of functioning for the physical body. When Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave, his body simply started functioning again (without any decomposition, which was part of the miracle). But Lazarus didn't gain a new understanding of his spiritual nature and rise above the physcial senses -- he was simply physically alive again. One has to presume that he had to go through the physcial death process again at a later point (if he had ascended as Jesus did, I suspect we would have heard about it in Church history).
Both Paul and Peter anticipated their physical deaths (both were martyred). If they expected to demonstrate their understanding over physcial death, neither makes that apparent in Scripture. (See 2 Peter 1:13-14, 1 Timothy 4:6-8)
The reality of spiritual death
Not only does sin result in physcial death, it results in spiritual death. God told Adam that he would surely die if he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He didn't drop over dead when he ate the of the tree, but his fellowship with God was immediately damaged and his longterm physical death process was set in motion (Gen 3:19). He and Eve had made themselves clothes of fig leaves, but God killed an animal to cover them -- a clear picture of the blood sacrifices to come throughout the Old Testament and then the final blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
Spiritual death and resurrection are addressed all over the New Testament. Consider, for example, Ephesians 2. (Please note that Paul's letter is written specifically to followers of Jesus Christ -- not to the general public):
"As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. (Ephesians 2:1-10, emphasis added)
The book of Romans also deals with sin and its consequences (physical and spritual death). An excerpt from Romans 5 states:
"...just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous." (Romans 5:18-19) The whole chapter is worth reading.
In saying that death is just a misunderstanding to be overcome, CS misses the point of Jesus' life, death, and resurrection.
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Posted Tuesday, August 04, 2009 8:27 PM
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| hi im rio and i want to know if death is real
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Posted Wednesday, August 05, 2009 7:20 AM
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| Yes, physical death is real. So is spiritual death. Please look above your post to see my previous post on this subject.
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Posted Thursday, August 06, 2009 7:21 PM
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| Rio, Yes, death is real, but the real question is: What is death? Speaking as someone who believes in the reality of physical existence, death is as real as anything in this world. And it is something that we all are going to have to deal with. But death is not the end of us. Take a look in the Bible, I Cor Chapter 15: it is a beautiful summation of the human condition, the power of Christ, and the promise of resurrection. Paul says in I Cor 15:26, "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." Note the contrasting descriptions of the two realities in verses 42- 44: "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." And in verses 51-52: "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." And then, we have this declaration from Jesus: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death." John 8:51 In this context, the reality of death is not so much a of a determinate issue.
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Posted Friday, August 28, 2009 10:10 PM
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| My friend's daughter died and was dead for 45 minutes, with several witnesses. I prayed, "Have your way LORD. Have your way LORD. Have your way LORD", over and over. Then I heard God guiding my thoughts and I said "There is no death. There is no death. There is no death" over and over. The little girl sat up and began playing with her brother in perfect health. No body is going to convince me that this was anything besides God. I am having trouble sorting out what of CS is right and what is not. But I will always carry with me my own insights on those words "There is no death". And I will always have some thankfulness to Mrs. Eddy because some of her ideas are right. Dave C.
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Posted Saturday, August 29, 2009 7:32 AM
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Dave C.,
My friend's daughter died and was dead for 45 minutes, with several witnesses.
I'm sure there were witnesses convinced that your friend's daughter died. The question that should be resolved is the ability of those witnesses to make that determination. For example:
Did the witnesses include non-Christian Scientists?
Did the witnesses include medical personnel?
Did the witnesses check for vital signs such as pulse and breathing?
Were instruments such as an EKG or EEG used to measure vital signs?
Was medical intervention also applied?
As a Christian Scientist, I once saw someone decapitated. Not to be too graphic for this audience, let me just say the physical evidence was conclusive. I left the scene and prayed. When I returned, the FEAR (False Evidence Appearing Real) was exposed. The head belonged to a mannequin and the fluids came from other sources. Did I express my gratitude to Mary Baker Eddy the following Wednesday? You betcha!
No argument - God heals, prayer works. Reliable, objective witnesses have consistently proven that through millennium. Unfortunately, healings reported by Christian Scientists often lack expertise, objectivity, and evidence. Yes, there have been reports of Christian Science healings validated by even medical sources. In my experience, however, the evidence of Christian Science healings is usually misinterpreted or hearsay.
Do Go Be Man
<><
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 7:58 AM
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>I'm sure there were witnesses convinced that your friend's daughter died. The question that should be resolved is the ability of those witnesses to make that determination.
Do you also doubt the witness of the Gospel?
Mark 5:22-24, 35-42 - Jesus raises Jairus' 12-year old daughter from death
Luke 7:12-15 - Jesus raises the widows son from death
John 11 - Jesus raises Lazarus from death after 4 days
Acts 9:36-40 - Peter raises Tabitha from death
Acts 20:7-12 Paul raises Eutychus from death
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 3:54 PM
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| I am so happy and rejoice in your wonderful testimony.
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