Posted Tuesday, September 23, 2008 7:54 AM
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How sad that your site pruports to help Christian Science followers deal with the discrepancies in the religion by foisting another dysfunctional religious system on them!
Really, a personal Jesus? Again, the apparent confusion between messneger and God? Heaven and Hell as places? What rot!
Anymore ridiculous than when I have seen perfectly healthy people get sick, stay sick and die because M. B. Eddy said not to confuse medicine with prayer.
The worst of it is, she was right in some areas, as is, I'm sure, your church gets it occasionally. Too bad this site isn't what it actually claims to be.
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Posted Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:33 AM
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Anonymous September 23, 2008 @ 10:54:27 AM,
How sad that your site pruports to help Christian Science followers deal with the discrepancies in the religion by foisting another dysfunctional religious system on them!
Glad you were able to stop by and share your thoughts with us. Sorry that we disagree. From my perspective, it's unfortunate that you have not had the opportunities that I have had. I'm sure you feel the same about me regarding your life experiences that have left you where you are.
Perhaps you would like to share some of the positive aspects of your belief system in a manner that builds up rather than tears down.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Wednesday, October 01, 2008 6:20 PM
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| Please check out the site's overall Home page, and you'll see our doctrinal statement. Most of us fall somewhere in the category of "Reform Protestants," but we have members who are Catholic, Pentecostal, atheist, and many others. Please note that we are comfortable with a wide range of beliefs and disagreements. Only violations of etiquette, respect, and deliberate deceit (as opposed to unintentional error) invite discipline. I'm sorry you want to throw the term "Fundamentalist," which you apply in a pejorative sense, at us. All of us have exited CS through various paths, and, faced now with a spiritual void, carefully searched for a viable, articulable, and sustaining faith. Since we learned that CS plays fast and loose with the Bible, we reexamined the Bible, and found that there are doctrines and evidences that are sensible and believable. So most of us tend to believe in such things which CS "spiritualized" and you appear to reject in toto: The Exodus, the miracles of Elijah & Elisha, the Virgin Birth, Jesus' various miracles (and teachings!), the Resurrection and his Ascension. And so on. I have a dear family member you would probably find a strong kinship with. Having found CS to be fraudulent, he regards all religion--Christianity especially--as fraudulent. It is not only a tragic pity, but I submit it is not good logic. Consider the lonely spinster, who opines, "Oh, I fell in love once--it was very intense--but the man was a rake and jilted me. Now I know that romantic love is an illusion, and that all men are scoundrels. I'll never let that happen to me again!" PS I myself do not believe Heaven and Hell are physical locations in the Cosmos, but I do believe they are real, and are eternal and unalterable situations of either absolute happiness, fellowship, perfection, and blessing, or --misery, isolation, darkness, and torment. Each one's qualities infinitely exceed the descriptive powers of human thought and language.
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:26 AM
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As a different view, I have found a lot of help and support on this site for dealing with my Christian Science background. However, I do not consider myself a Christian any more, nor am I interested any organized religion -- and if I were, it would probably be Hinduism. I respectfully disagree with the previous poster, but it's only our individual opinions and experiences, so there are no doctrinal requirements to be on this site.
Ann
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 9:25 PM
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| Ann, We're pleased that you stay with us. Remember, nobody is is chastized or banned because of stated beliefs and opinions--only for unethical, rude, or knowingly fallacious remarks. If we help you sort through old CS issues, fine; and if our dialogues (and diatribes!) lead you to reconsider a saving knowledge and relationship with Jesus, then so much the better! I'd like to address your attraction to Hinduism, if I were, it would probably be Hinduism I submit that your apple may not have fallen very far from the tree. CS, along with Transcendentalism and Theosophy, was one of a number of spiritual 19th Century fads that borrowed liberally from "Eastern thought," especially Hinduism and Budhism. Leaving aside the Biblical gloss of her thought, MBE's cosmic view was quite Eastern, sharing several key concepts. 1) Both Hinduism and CS believe that the entire physical universe is an "illusion," or "maya." 2) There is no original sin; Mankind's problem is some form of ignorance ("mortal mind"). 3) The remedy for this lies soley with the individual's accumulated good works and progressive spiritual enlightenment (karma), and not with any outside being or office (e.g. Savior*) 4)When/if one achieves the highest possible spiritual state (Brahman, "Immortal Man"), one ceases to exist as an individual, cognizant person and merges into some kind of universal over-soul (Atman, Being, "Immortal Mind"), much as a drop of rain becomes one with the ocean. 5) Further, there is no concept of Heaven or Hell or a final separation of the Righteous from the lost/damned, as everything is an emanation of one's thought. 6) Lastly, an individual believer in Hinduism or CS can never know when, if ever, one will actually achieve this blessed (??!!) state of Atman/Immortal Man. Frankly, Ann, I don't find the spiritual goals/hopes/views of Hinduism very appealing. Whereas I don't believe in a literal Messianic banquet, streets of gold, or flames of sulpher, I believe that the Bible promises that for the Saved there will be happiness, joy, and blessings to savor and enjoy forever--beyond the capacity of human understanding and language to understand. Furthermore, for the Lost, although there may not be flames anad gnashing of teeth, there will be an absolute and eternal pain and wretchedness that in some manner involves pain, darkness, and--worst of all--isolation and hoplessness that infinitely exceed our human understanding. Sure, there's no "hell" in Hinduism. But then, there's not much in the way of a "heaven," either *Although CS'ists refer to Jesus as their "Savior," the serious CS'ist, when pressed, will divulge that he thinks of Him more as a teacher and exemplar ("Wayshower," as opposed to "the Way").
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Posted Friday, October 03, 2008 9:23 AM
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I am sure you mean well. However, to be blunt, I have already stated that I am not interested in Christianity, so please do not assume that I am in need of saving. Also, I do not appreciate your statements criticizing my religious leanings. That is not what this site is about, is it? If in fact this site is meant to proselytize Christianity to former Christian Scientists, then I will not be around any longer.
Ann
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Posted Friday, October 03, 2008 12:35 PM
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| I hope you DO stay Ann because we are of a like mind. I really love your posts and they are important to me. I too have lost my desire to cozy up to God and Jesus. In my lifetime, what I have seen said and done in the name of religion and the Bible sickens me and I want no part of it any more. I side with John Lennon where he imagined a more perfect world where people dont hate each other, because they dont have religion. I try to ignore the fundamentalist opinions here. They are always spoken in a loving way and they HAVE provided this site for us. If Following Him thinks you have substituted a liking for CS for a liking for Hinduism because of some similarities, I would suggest to him, with respect, that he has substituted the irrational, brainless belief in CS healing and MBE's divine authorization, with the irrational, brainless belief of Young Earth Creationism. Rowing the Christian Science boat against the tide of medical science is the same as rowing the Fundamentalist Intelligent Design boat against the tide of all other areas of scientific knowlege. SAMEo SAMEo ; ) Although many of us are in different places now that we are beyond Christian Science, that doesnt matter as far as this forum is concerned. What we all pretty much agree on, and what we are here to talk about and find comfort in, is our mutual repudiation of Christian Science and how it has hurt us and the ones we love. So hang in there, you have so many important things to say! Square Peg
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Posted Friday, October 03, 2008 5:25 PM
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| I've moved this thread to the Doctrinal category since its title relates to religion and that's the way the discussion seems to be going.
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Posted Friday, October 03, 2008 7:40 PM
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Rowing the Christian Science boat against the tide of medical science is the same as rowing the Fundamentalist Intelligent Design boat against the tide of all other areas of scientific knowlege. Actually, it's not the same at all. A lot of scientific evidence is better explained by "design" than by "chance." (For some examples of natural phenomena that clearly indicate design, see AQuestionOfOrigins.org.) The CS rejection of medical science is a completely different issue.
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Posted Saturday, October 04, 2008 4:26 AM
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Dear Ann and Square Peg,
I have been reading these forums for over a year now because it was the only site I could find for former Christian Scientists. I was raised as a Christian Scientist in Texas where I was frequently asked by my non-CS friends to "be saved" since I hadn't accepted Jesus Christ as my savior. My answer was always that I had never been lost so no saving was required. Here I am 30+ years later, a class-taught Principia graduate who gradually realized after my father's death at an early age that CS was BS and eventually was deprogrammed. Caroline Fraser's book, "God's Perfect Child" was especially helpful in completely releasing the hold CS had on me. This process took about six or seven years. I too have the same feelings the two of do about about religion of any kind, especially fundamentalist christianity. I believe that leaving CS to become "saved" is jumping "out of the fire into the frying pan".
I appreciate those who run this website and allowing us "non-saved" former CS'ers to express our views. I have enjoyed reading the discussion boards but avoid any that pertain to the "christian" point of view. I would like to suggest to those of us who have left CS and have no desire to turn to another religion to begin blogging on Robert Ellis' website www.acollisionoftruths.com. Robert recently started this blog and it would be a better way of expressing how we feel about life after CS.
Sincerely,
Pumpkit
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