 Posted Thursday, January 29, 2009 2:58 PM
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Of course I understand your wish to protect your daughter's anonymity. I was just trying to picture which school she is attending.
I also student taught at the Lower School, and lived in a wing of the Upper School girls' dorm. So I had a little experience of the St. Louis campus as well.
I'm really sorry to hear of your troubles over the religion in your divorce, etc. I would say the best option is the one you are pursuing -- stay in your daughter's life and you can represent another religious and lifestyle choice for her, though it may be many years until she is able to make her own choices. And, of course, pray for her.
In my own family, with my father being CS and my mother attending the CS church with him but never having totally bought into the religion, we (my siblings and I) felt we had choices. We did go through CS Sunday School, we went to the Adventure Unlimited camps and I went to Principia. But in young adulthood, I and my three siblings all left CS, each for our own reasons. My mother, now widowed, has returned to the Presbyterian church of her youth. So a CS upbringing does not necessarily mark your fate forever!
Ann
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Posted Sunday, February 08, 2009 6:34 PM
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| I never went to Principia but my brother did for middle/upper. They all seemed really preppy to me and I never noticed anyone dirty or unkempt. His daughter went there for lower school and she has glasses and is very well dressed. Most of her friends that I met were the same way. Then again, she goes to doctors and eats healthy and my brother hasn't really been a CSer for quite a while. There was one family that I know of that had 5 or 6 kids and they all look puny and underfed though. To be fair, my kids go to a fairly wealthy public school and some of the kids are well dressed and happy and some look unhealthy, sickly etc. They play sports at a Catholic School and same thing there. I'm not sure I buy that it's a Principia/Christian Science thing. I haven't been to a CS church in years but growing up I don't remember the kids in Sunday School looking particularly unhappy or dirtier than the kids at my public school. I know WE took baths/showers regularly and had to brush our teeth and eat our vegetables.  Hadn't heard about the predator thing though, that's frightening.
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Posted Saturday, February 21, 2009 11:16 AM
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Wow! That's a lot. Sorry to hear about your divorce. I converted out of CS to Roman Catholic. No one pushed it, I came out on my own, but that loving warm example of every RC I'd ever known was part of the reason. So LIVE it, all you can. That's more powerful than all the arguments in the world.
As for your daughter, there are a lot of kids who come through Prin and rebel from it. Having it stuffed down their throats doesn't usually appeal to them. Others give in, and become CS from the process. So have all the discussions your kids will embrace, but don't force it. Make sure they know what's good about the Catholic Church. You know, build bridges, not walls.
I particularly liked the idea that (a) I didn't have to be perfect, and (b) you don't have to take eternity to get it right: you get into heaven the quick way! Jesus signs the bill. For that to make sense, they have to know about the Savior teaching, since nowhere in CS is that taught. In fact they teach them against it heartily.
They teach a mistrust of clergy, doctrines & dogma. And they are adamantly opposed to all things Roman Catholic. If your kids know that RC isn't the devil's work, they can (quietly) hold their views, throughout the schooling. If they've already bitten the bait, prayer is your best resort. This is battle ground for our prayer partners in heaven... and I know there are some there who would love to help! Just ask for the prayers of anyone who will pray for your daughter.
You might want to do some research into what could be her next step... School-wise, since after 16 there are lots of choices that are up to the kids themselves, if they want to insist. But mostly, I'd say prayer is your #1 help. My mother in law prayed a Rosary for me every day... and she wasn't surprised a bit about my conversion. My husband and I agreed not to try to convert each other, but he almost came over to CS before I came out. I saw the warmth fade, in him, and told him whatever he was doing, "GO BACK!" I liked him better the way he was. When it came to our kids, I agreed to the medical care and having them baptized. My son was just getting used to being in CS Sunday school when I came out. My daughter couldn't put up with it - wanted to hear more about Jesus, and nobody else, and they wouldn't do that. It varies, kid to kid. A love of Jesus is a good basic defense for anyone encountering loads of CS (thought & teaching).
Last point, don't underestimate the subtle influence of the suggestions CS people make. There's even an auto-hypnotic element in their textbook. Attacking it doesn't help. They'll just get defensive. Your love for your kids is a powerful influence, more than any of the things they're up against. If they're hungry for love, they'll go for the CS. It's better than going promiscuous, but still not enough. At the worst, if they learn to connect to the love of God, through CS, they can transfer some of that safe conviction back to Christianity, when they come back. (When, not if) There are good habits to be learned, by daily Bible Study, and turning to God in every situation. And it is God the Father they're turning to. The problem is the denial of who Jesus is. So patience, prayer, and loads of love. That's the battle plan. But it takes commitment. I just learned about some groups within our church that can help. Asking priests for guidance and help can't hurt. Some dedicate their hours to praying for requests.
As for the neglect, or loss of sparkle in their eyes, and the children's relative poverty, I know what you mean. I lived through it. Many ex-CS have, to greater or lesser degree. A couple of things can contribute to that, that I know of. There's the loss of self-esteem, from the constant emphasis away from self and feelings. The metaphysics they are asked to do can be quite a load to carry. Then there's the hunger for love, and the coldness of the people who spend so much time on their state of mind that they forget to do the loving things that help humans feel warm and loved. It's hard to be both a Mary and a Martha, if you know what I mean. (And I'm sure that Mary was NEVER that cold!) Kids notice that sort of thing. Warmth of emotion & heart are something that seem linked to personality, I think. Squelching the one freezes the other. Whenever you subvert the negative emotions, the happy ones are also cooled substantially. Maybe this helps a little, I don't know. It's just what I've noticed, from being there and healing up. Then there are actually abuse cases. It's hard to say how much is emotional abuse, and which cases of sad eyes are actually the wounded spirit on deeper levels. Like from the predator you mentioned. People need to be open with the kids on how to respond to this fellow, and the school has no business allowing him to stay on grounds. I wouldn't wonder if that wasn't illegal. You could find out from the local police department. They could anonymously handle it.
It takes vigilance to help our kids. A good vacation, to celebrate her graduation, after those years are up, could be the chance to be your normal happy self, and set the warm heart standard a bit higher. Lifting Jesus up by loving more IS viable. And it does draw.
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Posted Friday, September 04, 2009 6:17 AM
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Posted Friday, September 04, 2009 6:29 AM
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Anonymous September 4, 2009 @ 9:17:03 AM,
In the spirit of free speech, I approved your post. I'm not sure, however, to what you were reacting or how you anticipate your comment advances the discussion.
Do Go Be Man
<><
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Posted Thursday, September 02, 2010 1:16 PM
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Hello. I'm a Prin college grad from 1990. I have nothing to do with CS now, and frankly, did not have much to do with it back then. Though my Mother was CS, my Father was not, and they provided my siblings and I with immunizations, medicine, etc. I have children now, and maturity has given me a fair bit of clarity and wisdom from which to make my choices. Most of my friends were athletes and we partied about as much as anybody else, but in secret. It made things actually kind of fun. Unfortunately, the college encouraged and actually pressured students to "snitch" on one another via the "Matthew Code," and most of my friends were kicked out. I was nearly kicked out a few times, but never broke a code of silence. I sat through many meetings with administrators as they tried every tactic to produce a confession. To be sure, some students practiced a pretty extreme adherence to CS, and did not even use fluoride toothpaste. Some of the worst abuses were committed by the large, weird nurses who cared for those injured during sports. I played football and rugby, and saw many moderate to severe injuries. The team trainers and nurses were forbidden from applying ice. I broke my thumb, and had to get my own ice and knew enough to properly care for it.
I'd take issue with the notion that CS kids are malnourished, shuffling and sick. Keep in mind that the CS demographic is probably higher than just about any other religion, on average. The students at Prin college and the upper school are children of professionals. As such, they tend to eat healthier food, participate in sports, and enjoy other activities that result in a generally healthy population. The problems arise when something breaks or when a disease is introduced. One needs look no further than the measles outbreak in the 1985. The following quote is from the Centers for Disease Control:
"The high attack rate (15.9%) at Principia College is undoubtedly due to these students' very low immunization levels. This outbreak illustrates the potential severity of measles and the rapidity of spread in an unvaccinated population. The very high apparent death-to-case ratio (2.3%) is unusual in the United States, which usually has a reported death-to-case ratio of 0.1% or lower. The reasons for this high mortality are under investigation."
There is also no question that CS is dwindling in numbers. It has consistently shrunk for many years. To think the college will close soon, however, is unlikely. As one might expect from a wealthy demographic, the school has a healthy endowment. According to wikipedia, it is nearly $400,000,000.
In short, I would not send my children to Principia.
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Posted Thursday, September 02, 2010 8:37 PM
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While Wikipedia says Prin's endowment is $400 million, the latest U.S. News & World Report college rankings peg Prin's endowment at $277 million (2009 figure):
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/elsah-il/principia-college-1744
If that number's accurate, that's much lower than it was within the past decade, when I believe it was in the $600 million range. And enrollment today is barely above 500 compared with about 725 when I attended (1984-88) and in the 800 or so range in the 1970s. The cost of a Prin education has been increasing faster than inflation. For example, my senior year cost about $13,000 (tuition and room and board) in 1987, or about $25,140 in today's dollars. But the cost for 2010-11 is a whopping $33,075.
BTW, Prin is ranked only 128th in the liberal arts college rankings, much lower than the 68th overall ranking given by Forbes last month. Prin was crowing about the Forbes ranking, but I believe USN&WR's rankings have more heft overall. Here's a link to the Forbes ranking:
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/94/best-colleges-10_Principia-College_94313.html
For the poster immediately above, you and I overlapped, as I graduated in 1988. I've been out of CS officially since 1999, unofficially at least 15 years.
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Posted Friday, September 03, 2010 9:56 AM
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It was a little over 800 in the mid-70's, we had to turn some triple rooms into quads. Tuition then was between $3000 and $4000. My parents figured that it was about $5000 a year with books, room and board and plane fare. That would be approximately $23,875 in today's dollars.
Ann
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Posted Friday, September 03, 2010 1:03 PM
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Anonymous (9/2/2010)
And enrollment today is barely above 500 compared with about 725 when I attended (1984-88) ...
The latest Principia Wire, which arrived in my email in-box after I posted Thursday night, shows 534 students enrolled at the college this fall and 485 at the school.
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Posted Friday, September 03, 2010 6:20 PM
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I'm not a Prin grad so just curious. Does the 534 or so show a steady trend, decreasing trend, etc. over past 5 years?
Also, with the school, I'm assuming this is for 9th-12th grade. Is this showing a downward trend? How does this translate to Prin college numbers in the future?
Somewhere above someone said the endowment is large. I guess you can have billions $, but at some point, you just lose critical mass or sustainability. Can Prin exist with 400, 300 or 200 students in future? Aren't there accredidation criteria a college has to meet, including min. enrollment numbers?
Curious
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