 Posted Friday, February 27, 2009 11:06 AM
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I am really struggling with the concepts of sin and forgiveness. It is hard to rid myself of the CS thinking that "the belief in sin is punished so long as the belief lasts." S&H 497:9
There are huge differences in the way CS and other religions handle sin and forgiveness. I have read many quotes from the Bible on forgiveness, but I can't reconcile them with the way I'm currently feeling.
I did something many years ago that hurt someone I love very deeply. They have forgiven me and moved on, but for whatever reason, I have not been able to forgive myself and I believe this is in part what is causing some of my health issues.
Does this inability to forgive myself mean that I haven't fully accepted Jesus's sacrifice?
Is this my punishment I should accept as my due for choices made years ago?
Does this mean that I wasn't really forgiven by the person I hurt and I need to work more with them?
Can I truly be forgiven? Do I need to believe that it's possible first in order for it to happen?
In another thread someone shared a helpful analogy the world is a burning house (sin) and that Jesus was the firefighter coming in to the rescue. It made complete sense at the time I first read it, except that now I feel like I am the burning house and there isn't anything left to rescue.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I can't get this to post when I'm logged in. -- Seeker
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Posted Friday, February 27, 2009 11:58 AM
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Would you mind very much if I shared something with you? I hope I haven't worn out my welcome or anything. It's just that the topics have been so interesting...
This idea came to me when dealing with first my brother, who thought he was unforgivable, and then later my son, who also knew he'd treated his sister abominably, among other things.
I was on the phone with my brother when he was (again) listing the reasons why God wouldn't want to forgive him, and my mind started wandering to all the things God has said about welcoming back the repentant, and how Jesus came here FOR the sinners... and it hit me, that my brother might be inadvertently overriding God's decision. I asked him, gently, If God has said he's forgiven you, and he knows all, then he knows everything he's forgiven you for, right? AND, If you won't accept it, isn't it a bit like telling God you know better than he does? Isn't that kind a proud reaction? Wouldn't it be O.K. to simply submit to God's will and trust God's judgement on this one? (His wall of discouragement and self-punishment came down, and it wasn't long before I heard he took his kids and all 3 were baptized the same day... he's transformed.)
If he needed proof, there were all those people who Jesus forgave their many sins... and there was Paul, who counted himself chief of all of the lot. If Jesus could forgive Paul, and the Roman soldiers, -and look what they did- don't you think you'd be easy to forgive?
There's only one condition that I know of, and it keeps me REALLY HUMBLE: he forgives us as we forgive others. I've got to forgive the other poor _____, who ticked me off, or scared me, or really set me back and hurt me. I KNOW I need forgiving, so I'd better get good at forgiving the least to the worst. And I want to be forgiven much, so I'd better be prepared to love much. When it's hard to do, LOVE MORE.
In my son's case, it took more times around the issue to get through. Each time his burden was lighter. But all that guilt he hung onto was really crushing him. Oh, he was deeply sorry, so the purpose of guilt had been more than achieved; and now it was nothing more than a discouraging force that drove him to give up before he'd tried. At that point, it becomes self-destructive. Guess who loves that? Not God. We had to go through all the layers with him. The one at the bottom had to do with a miscarriage I'd had, where he thought he'd caused it. (FInally free, he made the biggest strides he'd ever made... and it wasn't long before he was a new -and happier- person. His Confirmation wasn't far off, but even more, he's become a light for others at college.)
Another friend, who I met through Salvation Army's women's groups, had been treated all her live for some severe mental problems, and her mother had laid into her really hard, even though she did the best she could. As a result, she felt completely unlovable, and didn't see how God could love HER. It came back to feeling unforgivable again. My family was the kind that had problems that they couldn't help. I learned that early. What I learned from them, I shared with her. She needed to hear it from somebody who knew her. Sure she couldn't do stuff with her hands, and she found it difficult to learn anything. But I knew she'd dedicated her life to taking care of others. That kind of self-sacrifice means the world to God: it meant she loved MUCH. "Yes, but..." Paul is a powerful example of someone who's messed up badly, back when they called him Saul. King David had his moment. Look what God did for each of them, and how he blessed the world through them. If God could love them, with what they'd done - and you haven't murdered any Saints lately, have you?- he shouldn't have any problem loving you and I. (Break-through moments are awesome! And the joy afterward, when a person realizes that Jesus really DOES love them, is unlike anything else.)
Some folks like to say that discouraging doubts are from the Accuser, who's trying to undermine us. Depression and discouragement are two of his best tools. Trusting what God has decided about me IS one of the ways to answer that sort of attack. Wrap the cloak of Our Lord's love all around you, and trust him. There are books that capture that... Just Like Jesus (Max Lucado) is one...
Basically, if God could love me, and forgive me... I KNOW he can (and does) love you and forgive you THOROUGHLY. It's not always easy to believe it, or act like it, but keep trying. It's a battle you can win. And you'll love what it feels like at the other end of this tunnel.
An expert on forgiving (as Christians) is the author of Dead Men Walking (the book that the movie was made from). We heard her speak, years ago, at a Salvation Army Women's retreat. Those things are neat, if you ever find one. Anyway, it's a gnarly, terrifying ordeal she went through, and it may cause flashbacks for some women to read it, if their past still hurts. But she's right that forgiving is the next step in moving on, and getting the victory over attackers. It hurts to forgive, at first, but that's not the kind of pain that leaves us wounded - it's the kind that leaves us free and healed.
God bless you on the journey.
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Posted Friday, February 27, 2009 4:28 PM
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Seeker,
Part of the legacy of growing up in CS, is the constant guilt shame and fear that comes from trying to be perfect. When I have those feelings that pop up, I just try and give myself a break let the feeling come and just know its normal. Feelings are just feeling, good and bad they are a part of the human experience and they do pass. I try not to be so hard on myself, I try not to have to figure every feeling out, thats a CS thing, if its not positive is it somehow wrong, but sometimes, I just fell out of sorts and thats OK. Try not to be so hard on yourself.
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Posted Friday, March 13, 2009 6:25 AM
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When a person seeks holiness, there's something that happens, sooner or later: an acute awareness of being anything but! It's like someone wiped the mud off our windows, and we can see where we're headed, and where we've been. This is a good thing! You have to be able to see what doesn't belong, to be able to work on it.
As for the guilt, a certain amount is good. Some guilt borders on "attack" status, from the enemy, who would seek to discourage us. One solution is to ask for God to help us. I know that sounds obvious, but it really is an effective intervention, and a step forward which comforts the heart. When guilt attacks, remember God's MERCY, and his infinite love. Fight back! Don't let the enemy discourage you from the path of holiness.
Heightened sensitivity to anything rotten or less than holy IS actually a help in rejecting the worldly standards and reaching for the heavenly ones. Oh, but please, PLEASE don't let criticism take over! Criticism can be a harsh thing, and is actually abusive at times. Don't aim that kind at yourself, and definitely not at others! Let love rule. Love has justice, but also mercy.
I COR 11:31 has something to say about the reason for healthy self-criticism. I think the context has to do with taking Communion, worthily.
If we correct ourselves, God doesn't have to. If God corrects us, we're still blessed, since it didn't have to wait for the Judgement. So here's the thing: while we aren't aiming for "perfect," we still don't get out of the call to holiness that is given to ALL followers of Jesus.
Self-sacrifice is one method of penance. You know, giving or doing for others. Following God's will is another good one. "Lord, what would you have me do today?" Practicing obedience is daily self-sacrifice. It counts. Be sure to spend some time in joy, with God. Holiness is a joyful path. It's our rich heritage as Christians.
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