 Posted Monday, May 04, 2009 3:21 AM
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I'm always cautious about groups when they refuse to "show their colors." Could it be he was kind of a "closet Christian?" I've met a few, who are actually CS.
If you look long enough you can pretty much always figure out the puzzle. I mean, take Salvation Army for example. There's a lot of good they do, and they do it without declaring a denomination. Another group does that too. So it took a few years, but one day, I was handed a chart that listed the history of religions, and which ones came from what denominations. Salvation Army was off the branch of Methodist teachings. I don't know if it started out that way, since it started in England, which was Anglican, but it explained enough for me to be content.
If a person tracked CS, it would be a little less clear. MBE cited her parent's beliefs, and then the church she'd joined as a child. No one mentions the fact that it was committing apostasy when she left it. No. And yet her beliefs look like a rebellion against it. So the tree from which CS came would have to be another. I'd say it would be the tree that originated mesmerism and Quimby's animal magnetism. There may even have been some other osophies & isms on there. How it came to be that her remaining morals got in there, no one can rightly say. Could have been a strong desire to think herself still a Christian, and a good woman. I've seen that sort of thing happen too. Kind of sad.
So I wondered about BC Chrisler, since there's clear evidence that he wanted people to go to the Bible to get their views of things. I wonder if he ever got wise to S&H, and MBE. The Bible does speak for itself, and actually correct her, if you read it as it stands. I mean the Incarnation of our Lord (and his lifework and offering) is a miracle beyond belief, like the Bible predicts it will be. It's in there as plain as day, telling of God's provision and love for us. I'm sure Chrisler had to have encountered that. In my own case, it didn't stand out as much as it did to those not in CS. The smokescreen of lies was blinding for a long time, and made it difficult to get the meaning of the simplest salvation story ever. I actually think his tapes helped me with that bridge. I had firm ground to walk on, when leaving CS, since the Bible had verified so much for me already.
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Posted Monday, May 04, 2009 3:52 AM
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I looked up the site you mentioned www.crislerlibraryephesos.com/?B._Cobbey_Crisler_Bio
From it I would draw one more conclusion. They don't mention Daycroft at all or CS for that matter, and there IS a reference to something a CS person would never do. To quote the site, "In recognition of B. Cobbey Crisler's dedication to his alma mater, Harvard University, the B. Cobbey and Janet V. Crisler Scholarship in New Testament Studies was established at the Harvard Divinity School in 1989."
My conclusion? Although his denomination wasn't mentioned, he'd been declaring himself a Christian for years. Divinity School is a requirement for most ministers. No CS would ever bother with that. All the ones I've know donated to some CS organization. It is just possible that he and his tapes were an evangelist's ministry to the lost sheep at Daycroft, for all we know. His heart was in spreading the Gospel. I wouldn't fault that.
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Posted Monday, May 04, 2009 7:55 AM
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| The evidence is strong for Crisler's CS credentials. He certainly had a lot of CS connections. Given his Scriptural expertise, one would think he would have objected to some of the doctrinal divergences from mainline Christianity. Instead, by association,he seems to have embraced the CS world. Despite the relationship, his Scripture and Archeology qualifications are valid,and make his lectures worthy to the extent they express valid Christian content. . Divinity School is a requirement for most ministers. No CS would ever bother with that.
But he is certainly not the only CS to enter Divinity School. The CS Military Chaplain Training Program begins with formal seminary education. Each CS Chaplain must be ordained in another Protestant Church before service in the military.
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Posted Wednesday, May 06, 2009 11:14 AM
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Jennifer,
You'll find precious few Biblically based Christians at Harvard Divinity. It broke away from orthodox Cristianity very early (17th Century) and embraced Unitarianism.* Today, they comfortably embrace Islam, Wicca, and all sorts of things. Harvard Divinity also epouses the so-called "Higher Criticism" of the Scriptures, which hold that the Bible is not of Divine utterance, but the cumulative work of various writers and editors, many of whom wrote under various sacred names (e.g. "Daniel," "Isaiah," and not their own.
Salvation Army ministers are ordained in the Methodist Church.
Sometimes, Christian Scientists need a divinity or a theological degree, for example, to be appointed as US military chaplians. (Just imagine this disconnect: a simple private going to his base chaplain, knowing nothing about CS, and saying, "I just got word my pa is dying of cancer. Would you pray for him, Reverend?") One place these CS candidates go to is Boston University School of Theology, which I derisively call "The BU School of Apostasy." Like Harvard Divinity, they embrace the "Higher Criticism," and are also quite comfortable with enrolling Unitarians, Wiccans, and advocates/practioners of "gay theology." I speak from personal experience, nobody holds the Bible in even moderately high esteem there!
The BU School of Theology is a Methodist Seminary, which may help to explain why this denomination, along with the other liberal "mainstream" religions, is in eclipse. Liberalism kills churches! (I can send you a nice picture of a former UCC** church in Boston that is now a mosque! Although many of these liberal Protestant groups still have (somewhat) conventional, orthodox statements of faith, I think if you press their clergy to the point, they will individually deny belief in the Bible, miracles, the Divinity of Jesus, etc.
So was Cobby Crisler CS? Yes. Was his affiliation with Harvard/Harvard Divinity any kind of contradiction? Emphatically, no!
*In that it denies the Deity of Jesus, Christian Science falls under the Unitarian group of heretical teachings. Christian Scientists often turn to Unitarian-Universalist chrchs for weddings and (if they have a public service) memorial services.
**United Church of Christ, a promoter of "Liberation Theology," and also President Obama's denomination
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Posted Wednesday, May 06, 2009 6:17 PM
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| Anonymous Poster #16060, First, I do appreciate and even share your views about liberalism and church, and I totally agree with your on-topic assessment about the lack of any contradiction in Crisler's affiliation to CS and the Harvard Divinity School. I have to say , one of the things I found attractive about this board was the common focus on former CSers finding common ground and helping others find their way clear and in a lot of cases, back to a spiritually and physically healthy church experience. To quote the Forum Home Page: "We ask that you refrain from doctrinal debates not related to Christian Science such as those between Catholics and Protestants that are often adversarial in nature. Such debates are outside the scope of these forums." I'm thinking there might be a more appropriate forum for comments on Liberation Theology and which church the Obama's are attending these days. 
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Posted Wednesday, May 06, 2009 8:15 PM
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| That was my post, above, MereKat. My log-on cookie was eaten by a cyber cookie monster! I might have engaged in a stream-of-consciousness digression. But I don't think it was inappropriate to the Crisler discussion. "Liberal Christianity" places a premium on tolerance (at least, as they understand it). Consequently all sorts of beliefs and practices find room in their tent: unitarianism, universalism, a low view of Scripture, ecumenicism, and a strong emphasis on "social justice" issues (which might have been a better phrase than "liberation theology"*). There is a certain schizophrenia common to aberant religions, and CS is no exception: on the one hand, they cherish their sense of unique status/revelation/annointed or charismatic found/detiny. On the other, they are uncomfortable being marginalized and dismissed as weird/non-conforming/cultic. Affiliation with legitimate mainstream bodies such as BU School of Theology ("Apostasy") and Harvard "Divinity" School help them reconcile these strands. The ecumenicism of these bodies allows them to be include--even with their aberant doctrines--and these bodies' status (in the mainstream churches and media, at least) gives them a patina of orthodoxy. PS I referenced Obama and Trinity UCC Church as an example of how extreme a "social justice" congregation can get. *how about "sexual liberation theology"?
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Posted Thursday, May 07, 2009 12:33 PM
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| followingHim, No harm, no foul. I'm just a newbie here, and I know a few who post here, like you, have been helping out others for years. Thank you for your dedication.
I think you are right about CS schizophrenia, but it is not limited to aberrant religions; you also see it in a lot of organizations. It may be more pronounced in the smaller, isolated ones. Probably one of the strangest CS-mainline affiliations in recent memory was the church's embrace of the Harvard Medical School mind-body institute. The idea was the CS would gain legitimacy thru association with organized medical science, and the medical world would ...what, --admit that CS was the way to heal? How's that working? Please, don't get me going about Obama's connection to church and churches. Did you notice his position on the National Day of Prayer? The acting director for the Secular Coalition of America, commended the White House’s decision to forgo any ceremony saying: "Generally, we don’t want the federal government to endorse prayer because it’s endorsing a specific religion" Which specific religion is that? Who doesn't pray? OOps, sorry, now I'm going off-topic..
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Posted Friday, May 08, 2009 6:49 AM
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I really appreciate the heads-up on the places that don't honor God's Word. That's really crucial in understanding the situation. When an institution teaches anti-Christian subjects indiscriminately, my warning lights go off.
In all, the explanation fits the need.
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Posted Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:57 PM
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That was when the Chairman of the (TMC) Board of Directors was one Virginia ("Ginny") Harris, a flamboyant and innovative leader of TMC in the late 90s and into the next decade. Perhaps Linda can direct us to a thread that has more details and specifics, but in the meantime, Jennifer, if you google the specific phrase "Virginia Harris" and specify "christianway.org" as the domain, you will come up with LOTS of interesting posts.
Ginny Harris had a vision to infuse CS with new energy (and legitimacy) by aligning, or at least associating, CS with other "spiritual" movements. I remember noticing that CS bought booth space at New Age and psychic fairs then, and articles from CS periodicals were reprinted in New Age pick-up journals such as Earth Star. She allowed TMC to host an anti-gang "peace vigil" of sorts when there was a spike in Boston gang killings, and there was, of course, the Mind-Body Institute (or whatever it was officially called) which was associated with Harvard Medical School and Beth Israel Hospital. Lots of Depack Chopra kind of stuff, as I recall.
Which brings us back to the origins of this thread, Cobby Chrisler, was affiliated with Harvard Divinity. We see here yet another instance where TMC has sought respectability by some kind of affiliation/association with that magic, august institute Haaaahhhhvaahhd. Bear in mind, Harvard has only one agenda: the promotion and advancement of the brandname, Harvard. They are happy to lend (rent?) it out if it maintains the image of "Haaahhhvaaaahhd as the ultimate in respectabilty and validation. *
So it is not strange to find that the late Cobby Chrisler used Harvard Divinty as some sort of validation.
*BTW, many a Boston politician and celebrity has sought to enhance his credentials by claiming to have "studied at Harvard," only to have it disclosed that it was some minor workshop or enrollment in the Harvard Extension School.
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Posted Sunday, May 10, 2009 7:30 PM
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That was when the Chairman of the (TMC) Board of Directors was one Virginia ("Ginny") Harris, a flamboyant and innovative leader of TMC in the late 90s and into the next decade. ...
Ginny Harris had a vision to infuse CS with new energy (and legitimacy) by aligning, or at least associating, CS with other "spiritual" movements. See Christian Science: Attempting A Comeback, an article I wrote in 2001. The section subtitled "Mainstreaming the Church" describes some of Harris' attempts to attract people interested in New Age spirituality, mind/body connections, self-awareness, and the like.
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