 Posted Thursday, January 14, 2010 8:59 PM
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Anonymous January 14, 2010 @ 4:50:30 PM,
This is what I’m speaking of: What do you make of this?
I figured that's what you meant. I was taught all about the imperfections and inefficiencies of Jesus in Christian Science class instruction. I later learned He was also subject to various human frailties including hunger, sorrow, temptation, and even sleepiness. Did you know that He once got so ticked off that He vandalized some merchants' tables? Guess you could try to make the case that Jesus was not the perfect child of God that Christian Scientists claim they are.
So, where did you say that in Matthew 13:58 it says that Jesus failed? I see the part where "He did not do many mighty works there, because of their unbelief". I still see where it says just a few verses before that "they were astonished, and said, 'Where did this man get this wisdom and these mighty works?'" Sorry, guess you missed that part in my earlier response. I just don't see the part where it says His prayers failed. Does your Bible include something like "Verily, verily, Jesus' prayers didst faileth". The verses in between indicate that Jesus' neighbors didn't think too highly of Him and didn't especially encourage Him to stick around to do too many mighty works.
In the case of healing the blind man, my Christian Science teacher was at least willing to recognize that healing as inefficient and initially incomplete in that it failed when Jesus applied material means to heal. He, however, did succeed in healing the blind man. Do you think there's some remote possibility that Jesus approached that healing in a particular way for some particular purpose? I notice that the people tried to tell Him how to heal. Maybe it worked better when He did it His way? Dunno, I wasn't there.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:26 PM
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do go be man
I don't always agree with everything you put out here.. but I'm with you on this one 100%. That's why I'm out of cs. They are more than willing to give Jesus human frailties.(sp) they blindly follow Eddy, who needed to diminish him in order to fabricate a need for someone to come after him (herself). Otherwise why would anyone follow her and give her their hard earned cash? She was after the dollar. Plain and simple.
The man is the SON of God in a way no other man/woman is or was. that's the whole point. why try to make him less than what God made him? Who Is ws born of a virgin? Who else walked on water?Who else raised from the dead? I mean really! Certainly not Mary Baker Eddy.
Of course he didn't fail to heal. The verse says he did not do many works because of the people's unbelief. It doesn't say he couldn't do many works 'because of their unbelief'. ( the catch all excuse for every failed cs treatment)
Seems to me any sect of 'christianity' or any group claiming to be christian should at least acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah ,the son of God, the One sent by god ,the Way, the perfect man, etc. Why else follow him in any degree?
As the gaurd said at the crucifixion "surely this man is the son of God!"
Even a self absorbed fool, like myself, can see that!
Born free
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Posted Friday, January 15, 2010 8:50 AM
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"If the best healer who ever lived prayer's was not 100% effective why are folks here so hard on folks who are trying to live up to his commands now-a-days?"
Everybody close your eyes and answer this yourself.
Then read my answer.
The answer is that people here take on a belittling tone. People are just a tad bit sarcastic and condescending which brings on more of the same. Like children who haven't been treated right by parents, always scrapping in passive aggressive ways with those who challenge their thinking.
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Posted Friday, January 15, 2010 9:00 AM
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This is what I’m speaking of: What do you make of this?
”I figured that's what you meant. I was taught all about the imperfections and inefficiencies of Jesus in Christian Science class instruction.”
Gosh, no wonder you left Christian Science. If anyone tried to teach me nonsense like that I would leave too. Thankfully that was not and has not been my experience.
”So, where did you say that in Matthew 13:58 it says that Jesus failed?”
Where did I say that Jesus failed?
You may be surprised to know that neither Mary Baker Eddy nor did a member of the Christian Science church write, Matthew 13:58 “And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.” This is also true of the account in Mark 8. Or the event by the pool of Bethesda in John 5.
You may recall that one, because Jesus only healed one man, even though there was a great multitude who needed healing. Why only one?
It seems to me that “their unbelief” is a factor in both the Matthew account and John.
“In the case of healing the blind man, my Christian Science teacher was at least willing to recognize that healing as inefficient and initially incomplete in that it failed when Jesus applied material means to heal.”
Perhaps that’s what Jesus was teaching. Anything like that going on today?
BTW, have you ever researched Revelation 18: 23? Particularly the word, “sorceries”?
“He, however, did succeed in healing the blind man. Do you think there's some remote possibility that Jesus approached that healing in a particular way for some particular purpose? I notice that the people tried to tell Him how to heal. Maybe it worked better when He did it His way?”
Yes he did heal the blind man. Never said he didn’t. Jesus is the best teacher who ever lived. Seems to me there’s a lesson here.
“I notice that the people tried to tell Him how to heal. Maybe it worked better when He did it His way?”
I believe I’ve read posts here that want Christian Science to conform to another way too.
And Eddy had this to say about that.
“The powers of this world will fight, and will command their sentinels not to let truth pass the guard until it subscribes to their systems; but Science, heeding not the pointed bayonet, marches on. There is always some tumult, but there is a rallying to truth’s standard.”
“Dunno, I wasn't there.”
Thank God we didn’t have to be. We have all we need today to accomplish what our Master and Savior expects us to.
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Posted Friday, January 15, 2010 9:22 AM
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Anonymous January 15, 2010 @ 10:50:56 AM,
The answer is that people here take on a belittling tone. People are just a tad bit sarcastic and condescending which brings on more of the same. Like children who haven't been treated right by parents, always scrapping in passive aggressive ways with those who challenge their thinking.
Your answer is a non-sequitur. That aside, I would like to offer that we discuss some pretty heavy topics here and trying to lighten the tone sometimes help, if only in the writing of fatiguing responses. Not even going to try to claim I convey that successfully, but it is usually my intent.
For those offended by my speech, I apologize for the perceived offense though not for my speech. Unlike many forums, this one avoids censorship whenever possible. Those who disagree are welcome to present their opposition worldview, but should be willing and able to present counter arguments that go beyond mere personal opinion. They should not be surprised when a Christian worldview dominates. I do not expect there are many Hindu temples in which the Gospel of Jesus Christ, God the Son, is taught.
All modes of human communication have their consequences for the good and the bad. Web forums have advantages such as anonymity, speed, and low expense (at least for the individual posters). They also have disadvantages such as lacking in the ability to read faces and other kinesic channels of communication. Readers often assume unintended attitudes and intent they might not have seen in person or through another mode of communication.
Yes, there are those who resent challenges to their thinking. They scrap with ad hominem attacks and offering only their personal opinions. They may not know their own belief systems well enough to defend them beyond what they feel and experience. I choose to expose not only what I believe, but also willing to offer sources that others can check to see if they agree the sources are so. Those who find such sources in error should examine what is true and present it.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Friday, January 15, 2010 12:01 PM
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"If the best healer who ever lived prayer's was not 100% effective why are folks here so hard on folks who are trying to live up to his commands now-a-days?"
"Everybody close your eyes and answer this yourself.
Then read my answer.
The answer is that people here take on a belittling tone. People are just a tad bit sarcastic and condescending which brings on more of the same. Like children who haven't been treated right by parents, always scrapping in passive aggressive ways with those who challenge their thinking."
There are times when it can get rather caustic around here.
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Posted Friday, January 15, 2010 12:10 PM
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Cont...
My last message got sent before I was ready.
As I recall I began that it can get caustic around here.
I have seen Do Go Be Man on a Christian Science discussion forum, I'm not sure which one, and I'm not going to put the link here because for some reason I often can't send the post.
At any rate, he (or she??) is always treated very respectfully. I've never seen him, or her, belittled or attacked for his, her views. I'm not saying that I've seen all the posts there but what I have seen is fair. Quite unlike comments here. Quite.
I would think that if one considers themself to be Christian they might consider that Jesus was moved with compassion. We should all let compassion in our hearts before we hit the "Post Reply" button.
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Posted Friday, January 15, 2010 2:25 PM
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Hi Jan,
Didn't mean to imply you're a swinger. Just that your assumption missed the mark. I guess I could have used a shooting analogy, or a basketball analogy, or maybe even grenades and horseshoes. Pick your own I guess.
“This is a forum, where people just put a brief outline of their thoughts in, it is hard to continually express and talk about the years of experience and so often offence is taken where it should not be. Reminds me of road rage.”
Why would anyone answer with specifics the question, “Can you document any living Christian Scientists able to heal as quickly, effectively, and readily as Jesus?” and open himself, herself, up to the snide remarks that inevitably follow? I haven’t been around here long but I’ve been here long enough to see how people are treated when they attempt to answer questions like this.
There appears to be a local constabulary here abouts with personal heart wrenching stories just lying and waiting to open up to the non-CS sympathizers. The intent of this would seem to be to cause the person to retreat out of respect to the one wronged by Christian Science. In other words to shut them up. Looks like a well constructed plan too. Reminds me of sharks circling blood in the water.
So if you don’t appreciate my method of interaction here, I do apologize. I won’t be here long. I’ll soon tire of it and move on. May come back. May not.
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