 Posted Wednesday, March 17, 2010 11:18 AM
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Dawn Comes,
I also feel ashamed at the doctor's office.
My first few years out of Christian Science presented some very awkward visits to doctors' offices. Christian Scientist or not, being a patient requires a certain level of education in the protocol of seeing a doctor, selecting a doctor, and learning how to talk to a doctor. Still working on that.
It's much easier having Christian doctors who acknowledge their spiritual gifts. My primary care provider knows about my background in Christian Science.
The shame I feel at the doctor's office is now usually attributable to being overweight and living a generally sedentary lifestyle. The fact that my primary care provider is almost the same age as me and runs marathons doesn't ease my shame.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Friday, March 19, 2010 12:03 AM
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Hello Man,
No, I have not abandoned the discussion, just have a hefty full time job and this is the first chance I have had to get back and read all the responses. Wow, what an interesting group of ex CSers. I am not so surprised that the CS movement is suffering from losses of adherents.
I have had many people that I went through Sunday School with and that attended Principia (I DID NOT attend Prin) that feel the same as all of you on this posting. Most of them have left and have going the medical route for their health care. OK. I can understand their decision to go this way. But most of them have never gone to the level of 'damage' that so many on this forum have expressed about their experience with CS. I suppose the 'damage' that modern medicine and pharmaceuticals (with every other ad on TV for some form of pill or medication that will solve anything in one's life) are doing today is not something that can be discussed, eh? So, I guess many of you are apparently stuck between a rock and a hard place since spiritual healing is not reliable (or is certainly based on charlatan-like or exaggerated claims of Mary Baker Eddy's) and modern medicine and its use of drugs and chemicals is certainly problematic. In fact, I have numerous people in my life that would sware off medicine, if they felt they had an alternative, due to the ravages their bodies have gone through via medicine.
So, I feel bad for many that I have read on this forum, with their past experience of CS that has apparently scarred them, and the near hatred they seem to exhibit for CS.
I promise to stay in the discussion when I get more of a chance to read and think about some of the postings. Thanks for listening.
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Posted Friday, March 19, 2010 12:44 AM
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Linda:
Where does CS state that our bodies are unreal? Just the fact that you have presented CS in the same way that many who don't understand it present as their leading argument (Oh, those wacky Christian Scientists, they belief that matter is not real! Totally crazy!) against it, tells me a lot about your understanding of CS. I apologize for being so abrupt, but I love CS because it DOES explain to me exactly what matter and body are (both the physically and spiritually). Your depiction of CS, along with many on this forum, that Mrs. Eddy wrote in essence that "Oh the body is not real, so anything that happens to it, don't worry about it and just love God and your fellow man, and everything will be OK", shows a lack of understanding that makes me realize why you and so many others left. That is one of the things I love about my study of CS, that IT DOESN'T shy away or give some pat answer to "What is matter?" (PAT ANSWER - Oh, it doesn't exist.) or Where does sickness and sin come from?" In my humble opinion, CS actually provides PRACTICAL answers to these questions, that no other Christian or non-Christian church or philosophy has ever been able to answer for me.
Again, please forgive my bluntness, but many on this forum take so many things out of context, that I don't know where to begin. When Anonymous states "God is omnipotent, God is Love, God did not create matter, therefore error and matter cannot be real, therefore only spirit is real and spirit cannot be sick, therefore sickness is not real, therefore I am not sick.", they are presenting more 'PAT' answers and only one side of the discussion. It is sad that the standard arguments about CS that one hears from those that have never even read the CS textbook, are being used on this forum.
My understanding of CS is based on my demonstration of it, just as in math. Like so many endeavors in life, the learning is in the doing. My love of CS and Mary Baker Eddy lies partly in what my study has done for me in terms of a better understanding of mortality, the physical senses, my relationship to God, to God Himself/Herself, the human mind, the mortal mind, sickness, health, harmony, etc. I have delved into mortal/medical/biological/chemical/sense knowledge and understanding, of which a large part is human belief and conjecture, to try and find answers to these issues and questions. I can't speak for you, but I came away more confused and more lost. However, it is up to each of us to find the path that works for us. As is stated in the CS Textbook - "The divine Principle of healing is proved in the personal experience of any sincere seeker of Truth."
Thanks for listening.
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Posted Friday, March 19, 2010 6:21 AM
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twright,
Could you give us your experience with CS? Are you class taught, raised in CS, ect...
thanks
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Posted Friday, March 19, 2010 6:39 AM
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Hi there,
I'm new to this forum. I wasn't raised in a Christian Science home but my paternal grandfather was a CS and I had quite a few talks with him on the subject when I was a kid. I wasn't a Christian then (I became one at age 25) and any religion, really, meant little or nothing to me. My father hated all religion because his father made him attend CS Sunday School for years. Other than attending a Catholic school, I had little religious exposure.
My opinion on CS and Mary Baker Eddy, thru a Christian's eyes, is that the woman and her religion weren't wrong about everything all the time. I don't think my grandfather had everything wrong either. That said, CS misses the Bible's overarching theme which is the redemption of man to the glory of God. A great definition of sin comes from the Chinese evangelist, Watchman Nee, who said that "man sinned when he decided what was right, wise and intelligent according to his own idea". Sin is anything that is contrary to the will of God and I don't think MBE and other Christian Scientists would disagree with that. Where CS diverges from real Christianity, however, is that CS believes individuals can solve their own problem with sin. It's true that people can turn from personal sinful habits and tendencies and follow God's commands if they decide to but man does not have the ability to remove sin's power and curse from himself - he needs an advocate, a substitute for his guilt, someone else to justify him, a savior. The fact that people cannot save themselves and that a perfect sacrifice (Jesus) was needed to restore them to fellowship with God is terribly offensive. That's the offense of the cross. This is what separates CS, the Jehovah's Witnesses and other sects that adopt revisionist views of Jesus from true Christianity. They simply don't want a savior and they don't want Jesus to be God. See Isaiah 8: 14, 15 and Luke 20: 17, 18.
Alan Baker
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Posted Friday, March 19, 2010 7:46 AM
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Here's what works for me...living in the here and now and taking care of my body and going to the doctor.I studied CS for DECADES with absolutely no pay-off,although I certainly talked myself into believing that it did so much for me and my family.
Our family never experienced any "healings" which of course was not the fault of CS but meant that somehow we needed more understanding.Little by little this way of life imprisons and destroys.
What's interesting is that now that I'm out of CS I realize how many CSists don't practice "radical reliance" and many go to doctors when they need to.So much for healing...
My family was hardcore and never went to docs.
Mrs Eddy was brilliant because she declared CS the perfect science in order to protect it and perpetuate it.Who would go up against the perfect science??
Out of all the cult leaders,she might be the cleverest of all.
CS is the perfect religion for those who are comfortable taking a large dose of denial.
I was one of them...
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Posted Friday, March 19, 2010 8:36 AM
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twright (3/19/2010)
Most of them have left and have going the medical route for their health care.
I think it is funny that so many CS think we run to the doctor for every little thing, I haven't been to the doctor in over 5 years, I still get the usual colds, I just take a day off, get plenty of rest, some chicken noodle soup, and nature just takes it course, really its not that difficult.
I love the term "medical route" very characteristic of cults to have there own language. I had a scheduled c-section with my 2ND child, my mother, a journal listed practitioner, chose not to support me and be a part of her grand child's birth because I was choosing the "medical route".
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Posted Friday, March 19, 2010 8:45 AM
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twright (3/19/2010)
So, I feel bad for many that I have read on this forum
We feel bad for you as well.
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Posted Friday, March 19, 2010 9:33 AM
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twright (3/19/2010)
Again, please forgive my bluntness, but many on this forum take so many things out of context, that I don't know where to begin. When Anonymous states "God is omnipotent, God is Love, God did not create matter, therefore error and matter cannot be real, therefore only spirit is real and spirit cannot be sick, therefore sickness is not real, therefore I am not sick.", they are presenting more 'PAT' answers and only one side of the discussion. It is sad that the standard arguments about CS that one hears from those that have never even read the CS textbook, are being used on this forum.
What makes you think I have never read Science & Health?
Where does CS state that our bodies are unreal?
One example is in the Scientific Statement of Being, which I heard every single Sunday in Sunday School so that I still have it memorized:
"There is no life, truth, intelligence, nor substance in matter. All is infinite Mind and its infinite manifestation, for God is All-in-all. Spirit is immortal Truth; matter is mortal error. Spirit is the real and eternal; matter is the unreal and temporal. Spirit is God, and man is His image and likeness. Therefore man is not material; he is spiritual.
Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures, p.468:9"
(bold emphasis is mine)
I will be blunt as well. Do not assume that I don't understand Christian Science just because you don't like what I have to say about it. I was a 4th generation Christian Scientist, raised in the Sunday School and church, attended A/U camps, attended Principia, went through class instruction, and was Second Reader in my branch church. I was an active and devout Christian Scientist until I was 33. I certainly do understand it.
Ann
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Posted Saturday, March 20, 2010 8:21 PM
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Hello Anonymous:
Be glad to give you some info on myself. I am primary class taught, a member of a CS branch church, and the President of the church's Exec. Board. A former 1st Reader, attended CS Sunday School from the age of 10-20 and my family was brought into the study of CS due to a healing of myself at a young age. As a result of the healing, our mother started sending all my older siblings to a CS Sunday School, but my parents did not start to attend church until later. Raised two children with the study of the Bible and CS in our home. They are now young adults.
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