Posted Monday, May 26, 2008 4:24 PM
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Anonymous #14662, 3, & 4 (AKA rapid fire),
Ditto Do Go's comment. While most of us on this site don't have the extensive CS credentials he has, this site is not made up of people unfamiliar with MBE's teachings. We're here because we are so familiar with them. I've personally spent much time studying MBE's writings seeking the "Divine Idea," but as an adult had to make a decision as to which book was the greater. Even when accepting MBE's Glossary as accurate (quite a stretch since it was not available as a resource to the KJV translators- how did they or any other pre 1880's translator know the proper translation without knowing their true meaning) there are large volumes of Scripture incompatible with the S&H. For example- the story of Noah's ark. When CS discusses the story, they focus on God redeeming Noah's family, ignoring the fact that God had just poured out His righteous wrath on every other person on earth. How could a God of pure Love (as CS defines "Love") purpose to wipe out mass numbers of "God's perfect children"? Why would He do so if sin was not real? CS has no answer that is consistent with MBE's "Divine Idea".
It really gets back to which book do you regard as The Book. A truly loving God would not leave His children without the wisdom of His teachings for some 1850 years until a defining "Key" could be written. A truly loving God would not allow "error" to steal into His divine revelation.
zoarean
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Posted Monday, May 26, 2008 4:26 PM
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| I would like to stress, Anonymous, that vigorous disagreement is not hatred or persecution. Most of ex-CS participating in this forum have very, very, strongly held negative opinions about CS. That does not mean that we want to oppress Christian Scientists. But we will oppose them in public forums, such as the media, legislative councils, academica, etc. I applaud Gentle Dove's remarks distinguishing between Nazi culture and CS thought control. There are differences in degree, but there are also similarities, in trying to keep the common culture and individual thought "pure" and protected. One difference, though, is that most of the thought control in National Socialism was externally applied, and people rebelled quietly, secratively, and publically at their peril. (TMC's "COP" being nothig more than a sophisticated PR organ, pales in comparison.) In religous cults (again, there are variious types & degrees) this is done individually and is not "thought control," but rather thought reform. And the tragic irony is that the cultist becomes an increasingly self-motivated participate in his own psychic/psychological enslavement. But you're right, GentleDove--the use of the word Nazi, like cult is emotionally loaded and should be used carefully and sparingly. Same with fascist. George Orwell pointed out, circa 1952, that fascist had come to mean little more than "something I really, really, really dislike."
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Posted Monday, May 26, 2008 4:33 PM
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Anonymous: you stated, "we say though, that the Bible is our only preacher.. ." Respectfully, I have to disagree because in every CS church I have ever been in since childhood they say that the Bible and the Christian Science textbook are their only preachers. BOTH comprise the sermon and weekly Bible lesson. Please correct me if I am wrong or if there has been a change in the Order of Service as well as the Manual.
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Posted Thursday, May 29, 2008 9:29 AM
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Menderfire9,
I know that the topic of Christian Science* websites is painful to you, but thought you might like to know that as a result of your concerns I've begun occasionally posting on christianscience.com as Do Go Be Man.
For example, a contributor expressed a problem with being stuck in Christian Science. I responded to him a couple of times in a manner that I pray is appropriate, respectful, and effective for the venue:
May 28, 2008 at 09:45 PM:
A well-used definition describes insanity as repeatedly doing the same thing and expecting different results. Sounds like you need to dig deeper into your Books in a different way, do something different, or somehow gain a different perspective regarding what you are doing.
I found myself in a similar stuck position and discovered more focus in my studies on the Bible was tremendously beneficial. The most important thing I learned during Christian Science class instruction was that we could read beyond the texts of the Lesson-Sermon to better understand the full context of what the Bible teaches. As I studied the Bible in the full, broad, and detailed contexts of content, grammar, language, history, and culture, I found the healing I needed.
May 29, 2009 at 09:44 AM:
What worked for me was getting back to basics, back to the foundations of Christian Science - the Bible, one of the Pastors of the Mother Church ordained by Mary Baker Eddy that she referred to as "the chart of life" and her only "textbook". "authority", and "guide".
Mrs. Eddy also said, "The Bible contains the recipe for all healing." The Bible is a wonderful work that God provided us. I found, however, that I got so focused on the writings of the last hundred years or so that I lost my sense of what God provided over thousands of years.
Commentaries and other teachings can be useful guides, but there's nothing like looking at the whole picture the Bible represents. The first tenet of Christian Science states, "... we take the inspired Word of the Bible as our sufficient guide to eternal Life." I have indeed found the Bible to be sufficient, rich, and a blessing in my life.
Do Go Be Man
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* Some of you may have noticed me departing from my practice of abbreviating Christian Science as CS, Mary Baker Eddy as MBE, etc. More on that later today in the Forum Announcements and Updates forum.
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Posted Thursday, May 29, 2008 6:06 PM
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| To all, zoarean (5/26/2008) I was actually pleased that they posted my response in its entirety I say pleased, as well as surprised, because the one whose hope is anchored in Christian Science idealism cannot allow debate on the fundamental principles of an immaterial existence. Say for instance, I have a website dedicated to the idea of gun control- I can invite respectful debate, present a solid argument, & conceivably win over converts to my stance. Or I may be opposed to debate, expressing only anger to those with opposing points of view. But in the world of Christian Science, giving any credence, any respect, to the idea that sin, disease, & death are real is completely counterproductive to the stated goal of mentally denying said (un)realities. For the most part, I don't think they refuse debate in animosity to opposing ideas; more so, they see giving space to them undercutting their personal belief in the "Divine Idea". The practice of denial is intensely challenging as it is, with their own senses constantly affirming the material existence. That is why Christian Science in general is so opposed to open discussion, why they generally have only pre-screened voices authorized to speak at so many of their functions- to invite discussion is to leave the door open to error. And their biggest problem is almost everybody & everything around them fits their definition of error- so they must withdraw to the secret place. I've seen this played out time & time again in my own family. My CS mom rarely admits to any physical or emotional pain, but it's obvious to me when something is wrong because the testimony tapes are on 24/7. We think they should be easy to convince, given their lack of Scriptural underpinnings as well as their legacy of unnecessary suffering & death, but the tightness of their clique & the self-mesmerism they practice are the causes of their nut being so tough to crack. I think the only reason my comment was allowed was that it did not directly assail their illusions of their own incorporeal nature; although, the idea that Jesus was uniquely both God & man for those 33 years does in fact strongly infer a divide between God & man that can only be repaired through the Person of Jesus Christ Himself. zoarean
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