 Posted Thursday, January 04, 2007 11:37 AM
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I agree that, on the surface, the warm and welcoming embrace that Christian Science appears to offer in a world that seeming denies the presence of God in many way can appear pure and innocent.
I understand that it would be comforting to follow a very strict and narrow interpretation of Scripture, and that allowing MBE (and now the Board of Directors) the opportunity to mold and shape a message from the Bible to be read on a weekly basis can be comforting and seemingly a recognition of a relationship with God that is unblemished and untouched. If you don't have to explore your own faith, but have it handed to you and in a pre-packaged form, it's much easier to go with the flow.
I can even see that you remain a committed Scientist. I can respect that.
For those of us who no longer find comfort in the teachings of MBE, what you have written sounds more like struggle in yourself to confirm that you remain committed to CS.
In my own experience departing Christian Science, I found myself continually wanting to know why my humanity was a flaw. I rebuked myself for anger, for sorrow, for desires, and for thinking poorly of others. My beliefs were so entrenched that I believed my father was justified in saying that "(You) never really understood CS" when I was forced to seek medical attention because of a regular affliction with sinusitis, pharyngitis, and tonsilitis, to seek a tonsillectomy.
I can't argue with your own personal experience in healings. I can only explain my own. The surgery relieved me of a problem that apparently had affected me since my infancy. My mother did not inform me that I had had similar problems in my first 3 years of life, and on occasion continued to do so throughout my childhood. I had asked her before having the surgery if I had been through similar problems as a baby, and she either chose to ignore those memories or deny them as a CS would deny the power of mortal mind in their life.
My mother currently suffers with an affliction that is causing her pain. She has not seen a doctor and continues to rely on a practitioner. Her condition is visible, remains constant, and may or may not be remedied by a visit to a doctor. Even MBE indicated that is occasionally necessary to identify the condition you need to 'correct' your though on, but my mother (a convert)
I have also learned that there is nothing wrong with being human. Indeed, once I acknowledged my humanity, I realized I had been holding myself (and many others) to an impossible standard. I am neither God nor Christ, and it is in my nature to act less than Godlike or not always react the way that Jesus did. It doesn't mean that I wallow in my baser nature, but it does allow me to MAKE mistakes, to LEARN from them, and to continue to seek a greater connection with my brothers and sisters in Christ...not as an ascetic group of healers who can suffer no ill or do no wrong, but as a member of a greater family that includes not just those who are righteous but those who sin and seek forgiveness (and need a helping hand in prayer along the way).
What is more important (at least to me) is to acknowledge when I have sinned against others, when I have said things or done things that are wrong, to acknowledge this sin, to ask forgiveness (both of the individual I have sinned against) and of God. To me, Chrisitan Science has eliminated any need for self-discovery, connection with the body of Chrisitianity, and the acknowledgement of the Trinity.
It has also allowed me the RIGHT to take care of myself, in the best way I know how, with no regrets. If you have found CS to be your best way, I encourage you to follow it. As for me, I will return to reading the Bible in a considered (and sometimes even questioning) way, seek medical attention when I see fit, and not restrict myself to a belief that limits my sense of self.
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Posted Tuesday, January 16, 2007 11:00 AM
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There are so many similarities in this forum to my own experiences as a 3rd generation C.S-tist. But I'm still looking for answers and a church doctrine in which to believe.
8 years ago I threw the S & H, faithfully read daily since childhood, into the wastebasket and felt a sense of freedom never found before in my life. I had not attended church for several years as my concerns and disillusions had been mounting. They reached the breaking point with two events: the Mother Church Board accepted a large promise of money to sell the disputed Bliss Knapp book in the Reading Rooms and a well-meaning acquaintance (there were no actual "friends" in my life clearly due to my demeanor of expecting "perfection" of myself and others) asked me why C. S-tists had to pay for someone to pray for us and also why there was no church choir in which to share what was then my professional level singing voice.
Perhaps some of you have answers. I see C.S. now as a "feel good", selfish religion that permits nothing in the psyche to disturb one's own inner peace . . . nothing including 'evil" which I believe truly needs to be dealt with realistically in the world today.
However, there are some beliefs in Christian Science which I continue to hold, no doubt as MBE took them from Plato and other credible philosophers and material scientists. What I've not been able to accept from main stream Christian doctrines is the concept of salvation by God's grace, with little or no responsibility left with us individually to seek heaven here on earth through love and good deeds. Reading over and over again the Sermon on the Mount and other recordings in the New Testament of Jesus'
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Posted Tuesday, January 16, 2007 7:23 PM
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Anonymous:
I must admit that in my 40+ years of Bible reading, I never did get "faith only" (sola fide) out of Jesus' teachings either. After a life-long struggle to understand them (which is ultimately "curtains" for C.S), I converted to Roman Catholicism, which teaches that both faith and works are necessary. By my study, the mainstream Protestant tenets of "sola fide" and "sola scriptura" (bible-only) are not found in the Bible. And I think that there are even a denominations who classify themselves as "protestant" who also believe one can "blow it" by excessive sin.
But whether Protestant or Catholic, in my experience, the biggest hurdle many ex-Christian Scientists face is actually accepting the supernatural reality of Jesus Christ - in effect, actually believing in what the Bible says is true. Even if this isn't necessarily an issue for you, I would recommend that you - or anyone - read some of the classic apologetic works, such as St. Augustine's "Confessions" or C.S. Lewis' (Protestant) "Mere Christianity". Even though Christians do believe in things of a supernatural nature, it is wonderful to know that we haven't abandoned reason and logic. In fact, we believe that reason and logic are God's own posessions, and if a thing is illogical or irrational, it isn't from God.
G.K Chesterton's "Orthodoxy", which I'm reading now, is also a good book on this topic. Chesterton points out that it is not the mystic that goes insane, it is the pure rationalist, who simply refuses to believe in anything he/she cannot immediately see or percieve (Nietsche, Hitler, etc.). But many far more brilliant thinkers realize that to fully make sense of things, we as human beings necessarily must expand our minds beyond what what is merely right in front of our faces. Sure, if it's proven false (as are much of Mrs. Eddy's writings), we should abondon the belief. But even if part of it cannot be proven now, Christianity is still necessarily logical! This is a great comfort to me, having left a religion that falsely held iself up as being a "thinking" religion.
Birdstrike
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Posted Wednesday, January 17, 2007 8:19 PM
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What I've not been able to accept from main stream Christian doctrines is the concept of salvation by God's grace, with little or no responsibility left with us individually to seek heaven here on earth through love and good deeds. Reading over and over again the Sermon on the Mount and other recordings in the New Testament of Jesus' Jesus' teachings can be confusing since they span a number of different situations such as confrontations with Pharisees, instructions specifically directed to his followers, or general teachings given to the crowds that followed him. For example, the Sermon on the Mount contrasts standards of righteousness set and/or practiced by the Pharisees to God's standards. ((Jesus says, "unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven" (Matt 5:20)) and then launches into a set of contrasts between external "righteousness" and purity of the heart -- see, for example, Matt 5:21-48. Jesus is describing standards for the kingdom of God, but he is not saying that people have to live up to them to be saved in the first place. Proof of this? His own disciples did not live up to those standards and, yet, at the Last Supper he told them that he was going to his "Father's house" (heaven) to prepare a place for them (see John 14:1-3.) He also told the thief on the cross, "today you will be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43), implying that the thief -- for whom the only good work recorded is his belief in Jesus -- had obtained salvation. I recommend that you study the rest of the New Testament along with Jesus' life, as the rest of the New Testament talks a lot about grace, works, and salvation. Its is clear that true faith produces good works and that good works produce rewards, but many verses also say that works are not necessary for salvation itself. For example, in Ephesians 2: 8-9 Paul says, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Paul is making it clear in this verse that heaven is not to be a place where people can go around bragging about the good works they did to get there! We can continue this on another thread in the "Dcctrinal Issues" category if you feel like discussing the subject.
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Posted Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:27 PM
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I'd like to piggyback on what Linda said, and affirm that salvation "by grace through faith" in no way removes the responsibility of believers to obey Christ and do good works. The antinomian view that moral law is unnecessary due to the dispensation of grace is rebuked by Jesus in Matthew 5:17-20. It is true that justification is entirely dependent on the work of Christ on the Cross, not our works, but it does not end there.
I believe the Bible teaches that the term "salvation" is much fuller in meaning than just referring to receiving eternal life. It has been said that there are three tenses to salvation for the believer: justification (past), sanctification (present), and glorification (future). Thus, it is realistic to say that, "I was saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved." Among many relevant passages, Romans 3 discusses justification and I Corinthians 15 discusses glorification, but the rubber meets the road for living the Christian life in the present tense of sanctification, which is the will of God for us (I Thess. 4:3-8). Day by day, "we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ" "until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" (Ephesians 4:15 & 13). This is accomplished by being obedient. The first act of obedience to Christ is to be baptized. Thereafter, the New Testament is full of commands and admonitions for obedience so that we may become sanctified.
So, justification is just the beginning, since salvation encompasses so much more. Being discipled and making disciples is the responsibility we have as believers to grow in obedience and help others to do so as well (2 Timothy 2:1-7).
Dave
Ex-CS, now saved by grace!
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Posted Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:05 PM
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Dave:
This will be an interesting discussion. You introduce a very interesting "third way" here that I will have to look at as well!
You may wish to cut-and-paste your thread over to the "Faith and Works" thread as Linda has moved hers. I'm hoping to study these posts and prepare a compassionate (read: "concise"!) response.
Thanks for adding this.
Birdstrike
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