 Posted Sunday, August 17, 2008 7:54 PM
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Anonymous August 27, 2008 @ 8:40:07 PM,
Once I became an adult Bible teacher, I have not found where Mrs. Eddy deviated from the teachings of Jesus Christ.
That is perhaps your experience, but not shared by myself and others.
Please go back to a Reading Room, pick up a Bible Lesson and show me one example.
With all due respect, we've been down this path many times over the years. Even if I were to spend days in a Reading Room researching current and past Bible Lessons, I would expect no new results. As I've said from my very first posts on these forums, been there, done that, and have the tee shirts. BTW, in researching posts for these forums and on christianscience.com, I've revisited Christian Science teachings often and shared many of those examples.
By the way, since I went back to the Christian Science Church, I have met many members who know the Bible exceptionally well. Many members were raised in other denominations and are now Christian Scientists.
Since leaving the Christian Science church, I've met many people who know the Bible exceptionally well and who do not reject its validity and accuracy. Christian Science claims a Biblical foundation yet also claims the Bible represents thousands of errors and is unreliable without the fixes offered by Mary Baker Eddy.
By the way, you also manipulated this discussion off point...
Actually, the point of this thread was a Christian Science teacher disciplined by the Christian Science Board of Directors.
My point was that our grandparents knew the Bible well and thus became Scientists, however multi-generation CSers were not taught the Bible well and once they are taught, they will see how Biblical Mrs. Eddy's writing are. They therefore will not be as likely to jump ship, because something "bad" happened to them.
In my case, my non-Christian Scientist grandparents knew the Bible well and opposed Christian Science. My grandparent who was a Christian Scientist, like most Christian Scientists I've known, relied more on what Mrs. Eddy claimed the Bible represented rather than direct study. I "jumped ship" because I came to understand the inconsistency of Christian Science with Biblical teaching rather than anything bad happening to me.
Anyway as I said, we've been down these paths many times and we're way off topic.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Monday, August 18, 2008 8:25 AM
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Personally, I was a 4th generation Christian Scientist, and I was encouraged, both by my Sunday School teachers and my teachers at Principia, to read the entire Bible cover to cover, which I did, plus taking a bible history class in college. My family also were well-versed in the bible. I knew CS's who studied the Bible extensively in addition to the Lesson Sermon. Most of my non-CS relatives did not read the Bible. Most of them were vaguely Presbyterian, but even my sister who is now a staunch Presbyterian does not read the Bible -- she says she read it far more as a CS. By the way, none of my siblings remained in CS -- my other sister is more or less agnostic, my brother married a Catholic.
However, that had nothing to do with my leaving CS. I can understand that people have different opinions and interpretations of the Bible, but that was not my issue. And I do agree that MBE is exalted to an almost cultic degree in CS, but that again is my opinion. I left because I found CS to be intolerant (see original subject of this post about the lesbian teacher being disciplined), victim-blaming, and that it did not heal as claimed.
Ann
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Posted Monday, August 18, 2008 8:13 PM
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Does it surprise you that I agree with you? I did not read the article on the lesbian, but it does not matter because the vast majority of the Christian world will say that homosexuality is a sin. Personally I found CS to be much more tolerant.
My plea to you is to find a new CS Church and see if you can make a difference. I hardly hear anyone in my Church give worship to MBE during Wednesday evening testimonies. I think growing up it was rote for everyone to say I want to thank Mrs. Eddy. Again I think MBE got some elevated status because she was trying to find a niche for her religion in a male dominated venue.
I think she also tried to separate CS from other religions by emphasizing the healing. In reality there is no such thing as a healing and in practicality our healings in the world are done by God alone. It may be good exercise to uplift your thinking and to pray, but the problem with CS healing is that it becomes ego to think that one is a better Christian if they had more or bigger healings. This is absurd and even more absurd is to blame someone if they have difficulty with a healing. Did you know that Jesus did not heal everyone? There were people who did not believe in Him, so He withdrew. Did you also know that He lost followers? These are people who saw Him in the flesh yet did not believe.
So please don't give up if you or a family member does not have the healing they were expecting. The beauty of CS is lift yourself and your goals higher and that is why I think a lot of ex-CSers are successful even after they decide not to go to Church anymore. You can be a light to your family members.
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Posted Tuesday, August 19, 2008 9:24 AM
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Anonymous (8/18/2008)
Does it surprise you that I agree with you? I did not read the article on the lesbian, but it does not matter because the vast majority of the Christian world will say that homosexuality is a sin. Personally I found CS to be much more tolerant.
Personally, I felt the CS church to advertise itself as much more tolerant than it actually is. I have several gay family members, none of whom felt they were allowed in CS to do anything but try to "heal" their homosexuality -- more denial of a basic part of a person's identity. You might want to read the article on "the lesbian" (otherwise known as the teacher).
My plea to you is to find a new CS Church and see if you can make a difference.
Find a new CS church? I have attended more than I can count after being in CS the first 33 years of my life and attending churches wherever I lived and traveled, including Europe. All are governed by the Mother Church, and are basically the same, so why find a new one? I have no interest in returning to the church, nor is it my responsibility to "make a difference" to them. I don't understand why you make this "plea" when you state that healing doesn't work? What's the point, I have to ask?
I think she also tried to separate CS from other religions by emphasizing the healing. In reality there is no such thing as a healing and in practicality our healings in the world are done by God alone. It may be good exercise to uplift your thinking and to pray, but the problem with CS healing is that it becomes ego to think that one is a better Christian if they had more or bigger healings. This is absurd and even more absurd is to blame someone if they have difficulty with a healing.
And that is my point.
Did you know that Jesus did not heal everyone? There were people who did not believe in Him, so He withdrew. Did you also know that He lost followers? These are people who saw Him in the flesh yet did not believe.
Yes, of course I know that -- as I stated, I have studied the Bible in depth. Again, I do not see your point. All spiritual leaders lose followers. What does that have to do with anything?
So please don't give up if you or a family member does not have the healing they were expecting. The beauty of CS is lift yourself and your goals higher and that is why I think a lot of ex-CSers are successful even after they decide not to go to Church anymore. You can be a light to your family members.
I realize you mean well. But I think it's odd that you say that healing doesn't work, and in the next paragraph ask me not to give up on CS, which is centered around healing. Any religion or spiritual philosophy can lift your thinking and your goals higher. It seems rather patronizing of you to assume that because I left CS I am not successful, that I do not have lofty goals, or that I need to be "a light to my family members". Or to trivialize my CS experience by implying that I quit going to church out of pique over a single healing that didn't go as I wanted it to.
I'm really baffled as to why it seems so important to you that I return to the CS church.
Ann
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Posted Tuesday, August 19, 2008 1:35 PM
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Anonymous August 18 @ 11:13:41 PM,
As I observed earlier, you sound awfully familiar and we've been down these paths many times over the years.
On the morning of December 7, 1941, people in the Hawaiian islands experienced the bombing of Pearl Harbor in various ways including:
Japanese pilots fully aware of their use of deadly force on American forces
American forces defending themselves and attempting to survive
Civilians on base who were also in danger
People in Honolulu who heard the noise and initially looked for rain to accompany the apparent thunder
Citizens on the big island of Hawaii to the south who probably started their day as any other until they listened to their radios
I doubt that anyone who actually experienced the bombing of Pearl Harbor itself failed to understand their lives changed that morning. I'd venture to say that dodging bombs and seeing massive war ships sink with thousands of men aboard leaves a vivid, lasting impression. Those nearby such as in Honolulu should have been almost instantly assured of the change as they saw the plumes of smoke, heard early reports, and began seeing and tending to the survivors. On Hawaii, life probably went on as usual for a little while at least. For those of us who were not there or not yet born, it would be incredibly rude to tell someone who survived the bombing that they should expose themselves to it again as they simply chose the wrong part of the island that morning and should have tried again.
There are many of us here who have witnessed and experienced the impact of Christian Science in a manner that you do not even choose to imagine much less admit. Like those who continue to declare the Earth flat or deny the reality of the Moon landings, you present a vision of Christian Science totally removed from our experience. Be grateful that you haven't been there, haven't done that, and do not have that tee shirt. Like the people on the island of Hawaii that morning, you are apparently blissfully unaware of the impact of what occurred, but you refuse to even turn on the radio.
Please, let me assure you yet again, however, that denying the reality of our experiences, assuring us that we never understood Christian Science, insisting we return to Christian Science, or suggesting we invest further in Christian Science is insultingly delusional and ineffective.
Sorry to be so vague, perhaps sometime I will have the inclination to share with you what I really think. I believe, however, that I've done so many times in forum postings, private messages, and e-mails.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Tuesday, August 19, 2008 4:08 PM
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Hi Ann:
I never said that healings don't work. What I said was - In reality there is no such thing as a healing and in practicality our healings in the world are done by God alone.
This may be confusing to some, but I hope you understood it. We have our reality in God alone and we have our practicality of living in the world. This sounds like dualism, but it is monotheism in that we need to understand that God is our everything. Our Mind, our Life, our Truth, Our Substance, our Love, Spirit and Soul. Our living in the world is temporal, finite and has no Substance.
In reality, what do you need to be healed from? When you are in God and God is in you, you are above the law of sin, disease and death. There is nothing to fear.
However, we look through a glass dimly. If we heal in the world, we need to give all credit to God. Any Scientist who thinks he did a healing is incorrect, because we can do nothing without God and when we think we can then this is the problems that you observed.
Ann, I am not sure what you think your purpose on life is, but I am calling you to make a difference. I don't think that CS is perfect, but its Bible Lessons are the closest thing we have. Please don't judge the people in the Church, because most of them don't quite get it. I am praying that you would and I think that you can join the Church and be an example. Please be patient, but I think in time you will see a difference. I am seeing one in my Church.
By the way, Scripture calls Homsexuality an abomination not the Scientists. Your relatives should be glad that a Scientists prays whereas other religions would want to beat some sense into them. Did you know that there are no decared homosexuals in Islamic countries?
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Posted Tuesday, August 19, 2008 5:57 PM
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Up to the age of 33, I was a lifelong, 4th generation, class taught Christian Scientist and graduate of Principia, who served as a Reader and on many church committees. No one has any right to tell me I do not understand Christian Science and should "try it again," nor do I need to be preached to about CS principles I cut my teeth on. That is the exact reason I left CS -- always being told that CS is perfect, and if I have a problem with it, then I am the one who is wrong. Well, that doesn't wash with me anymore. I will not tell you CS is wrong for you, but it is not right for me, and I am not required to respond to the "calls" of anyone, nor do I need to justify myself to you or anyone else.
Your statement that I should be happy CS prays rather than abusing gay people is insulting and demeaning. What are you saying, that they deserve abuse, and CS is so kind as to only pray to heal them? Bigotry is bigotry, whatever form it takes. And, you'll be surprised to learn, there are many Christian churches that are very accepting of gay people as God's children the same as everyone else -- truly a Christian attitude.
Thank you for reminding me of the exact problems in the church and religion that caused me to leave Christian Science. It's nice to be reminded that I made the right decision.
Ann
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Posted Sunday, August 24, 2008 3:18 AM
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| I see you define a bigot as someone who doesn't agree with you. I just tell it like it is. A fundamental Christian would agree with the Moslem to behead homosexuals, but that may be over the top so they will just beat the snot out of them and hang them on barb wire. The cults that you describe will condone the sin. The Scientist will pray, which is proably the most effective weapon against sin. I am glad you found the perfect Church and good luck to you.
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Posted Sunday, August 24, 2008 2:43 PM
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Anonymous August 24, 2008 @ 6:18:03 AM,
I see you define a bigot as someone who doesn't agree with you. I just tell it like it is. A fundamental Christian would agree with the Moslem to behead homosexuals...
You're getting close to crossing the line that you have so often over the years. I don't see where anyone has defined bigotry as the failure to agree with themselves. Telling it like it is, engaging in this sort of personal attack is not welcome.
I am a fundamental Christian and disagree with any personal attack on any homosexual. I consider decapitation and assault very personal. This sort of gross mischaracterization is also not welcome as well as not accurate.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Sunday, August 24, 2008 3:23 PM
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Did you not hear about the Fundamental Christians who lured a homosexual to an isolated place and beat him and then tied him up in barb wire and he died? I think it was in Montana maybe Wyoming.
I find it hard to believe that if a practicing homosexual and his spouse came into your Church, that they would be welcomed? Am I wrong? If they were shunned by most members, would you go give them a friendly hug?
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