 Posted Wednesday, September 15, 2004 7:48 PM
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| Is there forgiveness offered in Christian Science? I mean, it occurs to me... if there is no sinning, what is there to forgive? And, if someone is mean or does something wrong to you, do you forgive them? Maybe this sounds like a stupid question but I just don't see how a CS ist could offer forgiveness for something that shouldn't happen. This is particularly troubling to me because I don't know if my "friend" can't forgive because he's unable to or because he won't. I just don't feel like we can get past some things that were said even though I have forgiven him, and asked for forgiveness... I'm not sure i'm putting this right. Maybe someone out there knows/can understand what I am trying to ask??
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Posted Thursday, September 16, 2004 6:35 PM
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Dear Anon,
I have to admit that this thread has a good deal of interest for me, as a former Christian Scientist. First, I'd like to point out one of the favorite sayings of my brother, who became a Christian following the birth of his daughter. "Forgiveness isn't for the benefit of the forgiven."
You mention a friend who is not forgiving, and the assumption is that this friend purports to be a CSist. You ask "how a CS ist could offer forgiveness for something that shouldn't happen". The CS ist denies that the thing that shouldn't happen, happened at all! It didn't happen "in reality", i.e. to man the idea of God. This enables one to very quickly move on, and avoid seeking a true healing of the feelings.
If some of the recent posters who are current CSists were to see my post they would say "that isn't Christian Science", "Christian Science heals hurts". And it's supposed to, but in my case, it did not--bad feelings were simply denied and buried, not truly healed. And, having been raised in CS, I really, honestly did not know the difference, and thought that I was doing the right thing. Negative feelings associated with feeling wronged were not acknowledged or dealt with.
It took therapy before I could even admit that I had those negative feelings of anger, resentment, bitterness. Eventually, because the negative feelings were not acknowledged, aired or shared, it led to the end of my marriage. I'm not saying that everyone who professes to be a Christian Scientist gets as warped this way, but the teachings of both CS and traditional Christianity can be used by manipulators as excuses for their own bad behavior, and denying that you have feelings of being wronged is not the same as true forgiveness.
Don't know if this helps your situation, or even comes close to addressing what you're struggling with, but I hope in some small way it helps.
- Jean W.
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Posted Thursday, September 16, 2004 7:38 PM
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Thanks JeanW... I appreciate the words! This is what I struggle with practically every day because this person on the surface is sweet, kind, all that. But I know underneath he's seething. Hurt. Mad. And can't show it... and doesn't forget it. We had a HUGE argument the other night... bad. Not over religion or anything- though that has been a source of real tension these days- but I said things, he said things... and I felt HORRIBLE afterward. I'd never acted that way. But I am so tired of NO talking, NO feeling. NO communication! Man, I apologized up one side and down the other. I said all kinds of things I ws going to do to repair the relationship. He said nothing. No apology. No meet me halfway. Nothing. What can I believe but that he does not love me. And yet I know that isn't true! I hate this life! I hate the denial. i hate all that crud.
How do I fix it??
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Posted Thursday, September 16, 2004 8:16 PM
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Dear Anon,
I'm not sure you can fix this. Obviously, you care about this person. You seem to want to save the relationship. And you're asking "how".
Should I ask if this is a romantic relationship, a friendship, a close co-worker? I'm kind of reading between the lines "romantic", but since you're not specific... You aren't married to this person, are you?
First you have to talk about it. You have to let the other party know how you feel when he doesn't discuss this. You can start with the message that "Our relationship is important to me... and right now I feel it is being challenged." Messages like "when you do this... I feel"... unloved, or "I feel as though"... you have no regard for my feelings. Not "you make me feel"... but "when you do this... I feel this way." Make the statements non-threatening, not accusatory, if you can. Dispassionate.
If you can get him to agree to go, see a counsellor together. If he won't agree to do so... I'd advise you to go alone. You can't force him, but you do need to look out for your own mental health. You didn't mention if you yourself were Christian... if so, I'd advise a Christian counsellor or a pastor, but you might have a harder time getting him to go with you if he is strong in his own identity as a CS. In my opinion, a compassionate non-denominational counsellor would be OK, but you might find me in a minority compared to the rest of the forum. It would be better if your friend participated.
Meantime, you'll be in my thoughts and prayers,
- Jean W.
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Posted Friday, September 17, 2004 11:53 AM
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Jean W -
"bad feelings were simply denied and buried, not truly healed. And, having been raised in CS, I really, honestly did not know the difference, and thought that I was doing the right thing. Negative feelings associated with feeling wronged were not acknowledged or dealt with.
It took therapy before I could even admit that I had those negative feelings of anger, resentment, bitterness. Eventually, because the negative feelings were not acknowledged, aired or shared, it led to the end of my marriage. I'm not saying that everyone who professes to be a Christian Scientist gets as warped this way, but the teachings of both CS and traditional Christianity can be used by manipulators as excuses for their own bad behavior, and denying that you have feelings of being wronged is not the same as true forgiveness."
This is the story of my life with the exception that my marriage hasn't ended but it sure has been shadowed by a CS upbringing. Denial of reality/truth makes forgiveness unnecessary - which further warps your life.
Thank you God for Jesus Christ Who empowers us to forgive and heal.
stsuz
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Posted Tuesday, September 28, 2004 9:58 AM
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Hello --
"Denial of reality/truth makes forgiveness unnecessary - which further warps your life."(stsuz) -- has nothing to do with CS as I have understood it over a happy life time. But, have I denied things that I'm ashamed about? You bet! Is it hard to forgive those I love when I feel hurt? Yup. But that isn't practicing CS. "The vital part, the heart and soul of Christian Science is Love" (MBE). The "reality" that some CSists, like myself and most of the world, find it hard to forgive, has nothing to do with the belief system of trying to practice Christianity in evey step of human life. I try to forgive, and as I am successful, I am also blessed. Fairly scientific.
The Inquisition was carried out by the Christian Church in the 13th century -- by those professing allegiance to God and the Christ. Did the Inquisition represent Christ's message, or a thoroughly misguided understanding of the message by the people of the church at that time?
Why blame CS for the failings of certain folks that don't practice what they preach all the time, or don't understand what it's all about? World wide Christianity would be a failure if it were judged simply by the actions of all the people all the time purporting to be Christian. To "judge not" is to be Christian too, but there seems ample judging going on here.
But for ideas about the relationship?... Jean W's thoughts and prayers sure sound sound to me. Get some outside help to heal it, or move on.
2 cents
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Posted Saturday, October 02, 2004 5:59 AM
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| Ah, would that the person COULD ask for outside help. Can't do that, apparently, in CS. Or won't. To acknowledge is to admit there IS. It is, therefore it IS. This belief system is frustrating to say the very least.... on everyone.
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Posted Saturday, October 02, 2004 9:17 AM
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Anonymous Saturday, October 02, 2004 5:59 AM,
Ah, would that the person COULD ask for outside help. Can't do that, apparently, in CS. Or won't.
Won't is the more usual reason. That is the Catch-22 of CS. CSists fail to ask for outside (non-CS) help to prove CS never fails. When CS fails, they claim outside influences (malicious animal magnetism, error, unreality) caused the falure.
Do Go Be Man
<><
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Posted Saturday, October 02, 2004 10:53 AM
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When CS fails, they claim outside influences (malicious animal magnetism, error, unreality) caused the falure.
Unless you are an ex-CS, then you just didn't understand it.
Blessings,
Susan
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Posted Saturday, October 02, 2004 4:06 PM
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| I can't take this catch 22 thing... I don't understand! It's so unreasonable! IF I want to go get help (with my other- who is CS) THEN I am creating a problem because I just NAMED a problem. I don't know this is the truth of the matter, I am only guessing BECAUSE it can't be talked about. I think he thinks I am trying to kill him. Seriously. AND I AM NOT. I think he might have a physical problem... but we can't deal with it Because to DEAL is to be REAL (I think I might have made that saying up. Go ahead...quote me;o)! Any suggestions???...
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