 Posted Monday, November 22, 2004 10:40 PM
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Broncho,
Please check my clarification (Thanks, Linda!) about my reference to "the world, the flesh, and the Devil" on the "What is the origin of evil?" thread. No, I'm not describing the Episcopal Church as an entity originating from that unholy trinity.
Do-go,
So you're a friend of Bill W. also? Now there's an area ripe for a doctoral dissertation: How many people, having been brought up in that teatotalling religion, CS, got snared by alcohol and drugs? And whatever became of them? Yeah, after I "cut loose" from CS and sowed ("squandered" might be more appropriate) my wild oats, I had a lot of Fifth-, Eighth-, and Nineth-Stepping to do.
For the most part, my parents were grateful that I had gotton my life back together, and were highly approving of A.A. and its practical but non-theological spirituality. But after I got practiced at it, I sensed that there was more to know than "Divine Mind" or "Higher Power" or even "God as we understand Him." So I went to a Billy Graham Crusade, and, much to my own astonishment, I answered the alter call.
It was only then that I found myself at odds with my parents. My CSB mother recognized early --even before me-- that this was a dividing line! Anyway, the more involved I was with the Bible and a Christian church, the less I had to do with AA. I probably go to a meeting once every year or so, usually for some other reason.
My last drink was 1976, my last drug use was 1977, and my last cigarette was 1982. My work brings me into homeless shelters pretty frequently. I like to tell the guys there,
"You need the Twelve Steps to save your life. And you need Jesus Christ to save your soul!"
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Posted Tuesday, November 23, 2004 8:38 AM
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fH and Linda,
Thanks for clarifying your statements on the Episcopal church. I think I gasped when I first read your post!
I'm a friend of Bill W.'s, too, but I know him from the Alanon side. I'm a great co-dependent.  We learn denial at an early age in CS. It really sets us up for a lot of garbage.
Blessings,
Susan
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Posted Tuesday, November 23, 2004 10:01 AM
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Broncho...
As Do_Go wrote....your last statement hit home with me also. I still struggle with a lot of 'regret' even facing them and confronting them with myself and others, but "who am I?" is spot on (love those Aussie phrases). I think the reason I have no problem with 'giving' forgiveness...is because of my human self and all its imperfections (sorry, CS).
Say. fH, I suppose the word 'teetotaler' could be spelled 'teatotaler' if one drinks only tea....hmmmmmmmm.
Since one would have to be living in a cave not to know Bill W., I don't think simply mentioning the 12-steps in a post would necessarily mean one has or had trouble with alcohol........just btw.
Thanks to all of you (especially Broncho and Do_Go) with helping me with my current dilemma.....on to the next.
Nyoka
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Posted Tuesday, November 23, 2004 10:42 AM
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Nyoka,
I have often wondered about the origin of teetotaler. Your message inspired me to look it up in the Wikipedia - teetotalism. Not sure their answer is much better than an urban legend, but at least it is an answer.
Like Susan, my friendship with Bill W comes primarily through Alanon, Naranon, and Adult Children of Alcoholics. But for the Grace of God, however, I could have easily qualified for AA during a time. I did attend AA meetings with a friend. She was the reason I started going to Naranon. Initially to support her, I went cold turkey on the booze when she started going to NA and AA meetings (she also went cold turkey with few lapses). The more I went, the more I realized what a hole I had in my life that only Jesus Christ could fill. Several churches fulfilled their missionary roles quite well in providing meeting space for 12-Step fellowships. I was exposed to the Gospel message and the sinners' prayer at a time and place where I was receptive to it.
I wish I had known more about AA sooner than I did. My dad was an alcoholic. During his last fatal binge while I was still in CS, I turned away one of his AA brothers who came to his apartment to help when Dad called him. I thought AA was some secret arm of the Catholic Church and I was determined to apply my best CS work to the situation no matter what it took. Talk about a situation that has required a lot of self-forgiveness.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Tuesday, November 23, 2004 11:16 AM
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"Talk about a situation that has required a lot of self-forgiveness."
Do Go Be Man
I think I'm ready for the next class. I actually 'copied and pasted' that.
I have to agree with that Do_Go considering the dedication of these sponsors and how hard they work. I've been to several AA meetings (when one son was mandated due to underage drinking)and was relieved to find out some years ago that they now offer no-smoking groups...but the coffee is still poured relentlessly.
I'm not prejudiced at all. I think alcohol is the curse of mankind. Oh, so many stories...so little time (and space).
Nyoka
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Posted Tuesday, November 23, 2004 12:03 PM
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Thanks for sharing your story, Do Go Be Man.
It's had me contemplating if or how AA may have played a part in my own life in the ability to finally accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I don't have the answer, yet, but it gives me one more thing to add to my Thanksgiving list that I started after JeanW's post "Gratitude". I started with Alanon while a family member was attending AA meetings. After a year of meetings, I went back to school and then worked in the mental field specializing in substance abuse. I left the field after being disillusioned with the doctors in the field. Nyoka, you want to talk about "money hungry doctors" - at the time I left I could only think of a couple of the doctors who weren't after the dollars and would hospitalize anyone with insurance! So, now we are left with insurance companies paying only the bare minimum for mental health services. And mental and emotional problems aren't healed with an antibiotic!
Blessings,
Susan
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Posted Tuesday, November 23, 2004 12:24 PM
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Linda....
As I scrolled down just now I remembered I wanted to respond to your post to me...and forgot. Forgetting to remember is another curse...in this hyper society.
Your words mean a lot to me....this is something I've been burdened with for so long.....as long as I can remember...which seems to be something I've actually been unable to forget (for good reason it turns out).
I'm so glad I asked...
Nyoka
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