 Posted Friday, October 08, 2004 11:47 AM
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I cannot document a contemporary case, but can relate a few even though they may end up sounding like urban legends.
A member of my men's group (PCA church) is a Professor of Nursing at a major university. When he was in active ER practice, a man was brought in one night and subsequently died. My friend prayed, life signs were restored, and the man recovered.
A friend who was a police helicopter pilot answered a call where a young girl was hit by a bus. The EMTs on the scene pronounced her dead and waved him off. He landed anyway and insisted the girl be loaded into the chopper. A minute and half after lifting off he was at the hospital. A doctor met him and again pronounced the girl dead. He insisted she be taken inside for treatment. They complied, restored life signs, and she recovered completely.
I witnessed a decapitation due to an automobile accident, an event on which several people concurred. I retreated to an isolated spot and, for the first time in my life, knelt in prayer crying and pleading with God for things to be restored. When I returned to the scene, the victim was on a gurney about to be loaded into a ambulance. His only injury was a sprained finger. Later four other people confirmed they had seen the decapitated head and body. While we questioned what we had seen, I had not been alone in my prayers.
Do Go Be Man
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Posted Friday, October 08, 2004 12:29 PM
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Would you consider those who are being revived by medical professionals, EMT's etc., who apparently are dead due to accidents, etc., where intense prayer is being offered simultaneoursly by Christians on their behalf, as instances where the scripture is being fulfilled?
John
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Posted Friday, October 08, 2004 12:53 PM
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John,
The ability of medical professionals, EMTs, etc. to bring people back from clinical death is a relatively recent phenomenon. What I am interested in are cases in which individuals are raised from apparent death through prayer, either through prayer without any attempts at medical resusitation, or even prayer where there is a simultaneous attempt at medical resusitation, but where it seems clear that prayer is the factor that made the difference. I do not look upon resusitation from clinical death due solely to medical technology as a fulfillment of Jesus' command, as wonderful as that is. Any scientific materialist or skeptic could and would easily say in such cases that there is no evidence of any transcendent power involved beyond the medical technology itself -- a medical technology that the skeptic would be prone to see solely as a product of scientific research and human ingenuity.
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Posted Friday, October 08, 2004 12:55 PM
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Do Go Be Man,
I very much appreciate your sharing your accounts.
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Posted Friday, October 08, 2004 1:16 PM
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Matt. 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7As you go, preach this message: `The kingdom of heaven is near.' 8Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give."
I completely missed this the first time around. From the scriptural passage above, it would appear that Jesus gave this authority to the Apostles. At least in this instance, it does not appear to be a command for all people. That's just from a lay perspective. I may have missed some other scriptural references.
John
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Posted Friday, October 08, 2004 1:25 PM
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| Interesting perspective, John. But it does seem that accounts of Christians raising the dead have surfaced from time to time in Christian history. And there are certainly many Christians today who feel, rightly or wrongly, for some reason, that Christians are somehow commanded by Jesus to heal the sick through spiritual means. Raising the dead seems to get into the mix on occasion as well, even now.
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Posted Friday, October 08, 2004 1:41 PM
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The first and most important focus of Christianity is not to heal or raise from the dead, it’s to tell the story of salvation. Bring people to heaven - snatched out of the hands of Satan and Hell for eternity. The second is loving each other.
For me, I don't want to be raised from the dead by a doctor or Christian. I don't fear death and don't have a desire to continue it this fallen state when I have a chance to go to heaven. Why would any body choose this when heaven awaits for those who are saved. I guess if you don't have solid a belief in heaven, then its normal to hold onto what you know and expect and feel safe with it - try to make it last longer, vs. the change of the future and it being an unknown like if you are a CSist.
I have sign on me.... DO NOT RAISE FROM THE DEAD, I'M HEAVEN BOUND!
All this stuff in life here on earth is just noise compared to heaven. Let’s celebrate with incredible joy each minute that we are saved from hell - eternal quiet, aloneness, pain, darkness, UG. Forever. What better gift can we get? Healings, being saved from death to come back here is just noise with eternity is concerned to a saved Christian.
Healings are more useful for those that don't believe. It helps their unbelief. That's why Jesus and the disciples did it. Who knows, maybe for a CSist, they will finally get it too!
Cheers,
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Posted Friday, October 08, 2004 1:49 PM
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Anonymous:
Per healing the sick, where I object to CS (among many other reasons, mainly that it has rewritten the Bible to say it is Christian) is that its main thrust is that we are commanded to rely exclusively on spiritual means to heal. I have read the NT from cover to cover, and no where does it say that. (The main theme of the Bible isn't healing anyway, It's that man is an imperfect creature {AKA as a sinner}, and that the most important thing is to obtain forgiveness for sins in this life and eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ, who suffered and died, thereby paying for our sins).
Now, TMC apparently has softened it's stand on healing exclusivity somewhat in recent times, either because of bad PR it has with generated with outsiders by historically maintaining such a stance (or prospective converts), or because it can no longer enforce this provision with its dwindlling membership, or both. As recently as a couple of years ago, however, the website in its Q&A section on its website said it discouraged people from combining medical treatment and prayer as this would be "counter productive to healing".
Although it was in a non-clinical capacity, I worked in hospitals for over 12 years. The facilities all had in house chaplaincy departments, as well as clergy visiting their member patients by the dozens. I saw many instances where folks made miraculous recoveries with a combination of medicine and prayer. I dare say this happens everyday in medical facilities across the U.S. and world.
CS is the wrong path, whether it's trying to raise the dead, heal the sick (what happened to casting out demons in this mix?), etc. If you read the NT without MBE's 100 plus word redefinitions that you find in S&H, you will find a whole different message and road to the Father.
Sincerely,
John
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Posted Friday, October 08, 2004 1:57 PM
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John,
Certainly the "mix" over the centuries of Christian history, as well as now, has included casting out demons, as witness the tradition of exorcism in both Catholic and Protestant traditions.
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Posted Friday, October 08, 2004 2:01 PM
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Anonymous:
Very true. But in CS, healing the sick is the foundation of all; raising the dead is being discussed is this thread with supposed anecdotal proof of MBE's participation in such an instance cited. Why is casting out demons conveniently omitted from the CS mix?
John
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