 Posted Wednesday, December 01, 2004 5:51 AM
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Dear Friends,
In replying to Broncho this morning about her Thanksgiving, I had an impediment to my typing, and it is this: I am still somewhat uncomfortable saying to someone, "I'll pray for you," or "I'm praying for you." Particularly if they have not requested prayer. Usually I ask, "If it's OK with you, I'll include you in my prayers." But not always, and if I haven't asked for permission, I find that little doubt about whether I should be praying for them.
I believe this to be deep in my CS roots... praying for someone was something you just didn't do without their permission or request. It might interfere with their own "working things out".
Anybody else have this discomfort, and if not, what helped you get past it? In general, what are your feelings or what have you learned since leaving CS about the ethics of praying for others?
- Jean W.
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Posted Wednesday, December 01, 2004 3:11 PM
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Dear Jean,
At my church we call praying for one another intercessory prayer and we do it at the drop of a hat. At every service (at least it seems like every service) we have what is called the Prayers of the People and we pray for EVERYBODY without their permission.
I cannot tell you how many times I have hit a rough patch in life and been so grateful to know that other Christians were out there praying for me. This is especially crucial when I have a high fever or other ailment that keeps me from praying for myself. Once, during a severe pneumonia (actually the night before I went to the hospital for it), I called my priest to ask her to pray for me. I was in a real panic, because I couldn't pray for myself. Shades of CS thinking causing fears! Anyway, she told me about a bible story where a man was lowered into his house by his friends. She said I should remember that sometimes we just have to let friends help us and pray for us.
I wish I knew where that story was. I bet one of our scholars will know it instantly.
I think the only reason CS had hangups about intercessory prayer is that MBE wanted to make sure CS got the "credit." I just love the idea of praying for the whole world. In my religion's Book of Common Prayer, there are over twenty pages of prayers for those who do not even know they are being prayed for.
Actually, when it comes down to it, I think praying for one another is one of the essential Christian activities. It is being Christ to the world in a very important way. I cannot think of anything screwier than someone having to give permission to be prayed for!!
Broncho
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Posted Wednesday, December 01, 2004 8:41 PM
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Broncho,
You'll find versions of this episode with Jesus in Mark 2.1-12 and Luke 5.17-16.
I know my mother was especially upset that I was praying for her, and wouldn't speak to me for some years because of it. Hard-core CS'ists feel very threatened by it. It may come from the early days of CS, when practioners and teachers were aggressively competing for clients. This would eliminate patients from "loading up" on metaphysical help by employing teams of practioners to "pray" for them.
I have a hunch that this is also because of the occultic core of CS. "Expressing dominion" in their thought is a way to control the spiritual realm, and thereby control their temporal reality. Also, since "God is 'Mind,'" and thought is an activity of mind/Mind, the activitiy/presence of mortal mind is an impedement to or displacement of "Immortal Mind."
All this gets us into the sticky wicket of Malicious Animal Magnatism etc., so enough of that.
But Broncho, you made an excellent point: sometimes we can't do things for ourselves, and we just have to let our friends do it for us! Such a healthy, refreshing response to the austere autonomy that CS'ists prize!
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Posted Wednesday, December 01, 2004 8:42 PM
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Hi, pardon my ignorance (and I am ignorant about CS most of the time...) but do Christian Scientists "pray"? I can't get an answer I understand. I know that sounds funny but it doesn't make sense to me... the answers I get. I go to their services and there is no prayer as far as I can tell- except that Lord's Prayer "thing" that they do (scares me every time...). They don't seem to "pray" for other people, parts of the world, disasters, whatever. What DO they do? Do they actually petition God? Or are their prayers a kind of "pump yourself up" thing. I mean, stating something that you want to be fact (i.e., heal me) and thinking it to come true. Is that prayer?
Never got a real handle on this one.
Me
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Posted Wednesday, December 01, 2004 9:46 PM
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Dear "me,"
You seem to have a pretty good understanding of CS "prayer." You're right: there is no intercessory prayer as Christians understand it. It is a kind of "pumping oneself up." Oftentime CS'ists use phrases that sound very Christian in the conventional sense, but understand that they use what is called "loaded language,"* a psychological term meaning words that have different, special, or secret meanings that mean one thing to them, but different things to you. Christians also use prayer as a means to "pettition" God. CS'ists use what is sometimes called "prayers of affirmation."
In other words, they declare or "know the truth," which is a perfect condition that they think really exists, except that they have to know it in a deep, heart-felt, intensely profound way. When they can accomplish this, then it will somehow come into being.
They are loathe to call this self-hynotism or brainwashing** but that is, basically, what it is. Forcing oneself to believe in something so intensely that they see/believe it really is that way! Then they experience the alleged healing or "demonstration," as they call it. I think some combination of three things happens: 1) They think it was a serious problem, when it wasn't (incorrect diagnosis); 2) they experience a mind-over-matter phenomenon, and thus some kind of healing really did occurr, or 3) they think they were healed, but they wren't (incorrect diagnosis of healing, suppression of symptoms, or maybe denial).
And they don't pray for disasters and such. It's hard to deny things like genocide, isn't it? I think they just kind of avoid those issues in their spiritual thought. Maybe those people just have "to work out their own salvation."
*Sometimes this is called "spiritualizing" a word, and is used a lot in their use of the Bible. As a matter of fact, Eddy had to put an entire chapter ("Glossary") in her book to give the "spiritual" definitions of words she had special meanings for.
**A CS loyalist (and probable TMC official) will probably challenge me vigorously on this, but I stand by my words: even if they abhor the terms hypnosis and mesmerism, it involves a repetitive and intense self-persuasion that the undesired physical reality is non-existent and illusory.
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Posted Thursday, December 02, 2004 6:45 AM
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| fH, well. I guess I am not as ignorant as I imagined. How can you get rid of the spiritualized crud? What "counteracts" that? This is insanity and I hate it. Me
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Posted Friday, December 03, 2004 11:05 AM
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Dear Following Him,
I can remember as a child, praying to understand that the devastation of the Vietnam war was just Mortal Mind. We never got to watch the war much on TV because that would make it all more "real." Somehow, some of it came through because to this day I have mental images of loads of helicopters going through fields and shooting at people. (I don't like the sound of helicopters, it scares me).
The question "me" asks is so important, how does one approach CS language? This seems to be an ultimate issue.
Broncho
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Posted Friday, December 03, 2004 11:41 AM
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Hi Broncho and all,
This may sound simplistic to some people, but for me a lot of "giving up" of the thought processes ingrained in my head regarding Christian Science came when I was able to begin forgiving those who put them in my head in the first place.
Not too long ago, when the Clinton Library opened, there was a television interview on with Bill Clinton. The interviewer, whose identity currently escapes me, asked how Mr. Clinton dealt with all the people (media, as well as individuals) who spoke out against him -- how he forgave them, essentially. His answer was that he recalled a discussion he had with Nelson Mandela and what he learned from that discussion. Mr. Clinton had asked Mr. Mandela how he had forgiven those who imprisioned him for so many years. Mr. Mandela replied that he had been in prision for many years and wished to be out of prison. Not forgiving his persecutors would have meant that he would still be imprisoned by them. He wished to be free, so he forgave them.
Letting go (at least somewhat) of my personal anger towards those who ignorantly believed in CS teachings and passed them along to me has helped me in a similar manner. CS beliefs still come to me automatically in times of panic, but they are more easily let go when the anger doesn't underline and embolden the thought process "burning it into my thought" and magnifying it. Instead now it can quickly fade away and the gentleness of Jesus Christ's love can soothingly wash the CS crud aside.
Perhaps "hating the insanity", like you mentioned, doesn't help much in overcoming it. If we hate it, we give it more influence in our lives. Why hate a thought suggestion? Just knowing it is merely that -- a thought suggestion (a nonsensical thought process), gives it less power in our thought. (sounds somewhat like using a CS thought process to overcome the CS thought process, I know, but it really isn't intended as such). Hope this makes sense and is helpful.
Broncho, please know that I've been praying for you daily and have learned so very much from your posts. They have helped me in many, many ways. Thank you and God Bless! -- Grace
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Posted Tuesday, December 07, 2004 1:09 PM
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In response to Broncho and others with this experience, I remember the loving feelings I had when I first heard Prayers of the People . We were also encouraged to add our own petitions orally or silently during this time. I alway include my best friend with M.S. since I have felt so helpless not being close to her at this very difficult time in her life.
I can also concur with the confusion as a child of not being able to talk about a disaster or war since mentioning it gave it "reality". One memory that has always stayed with me was that of my mother or father turning off the radio or TV whenever an ad for medication (aspirin, etc.) came on. Instinctively, I still feel the urge to turn off these ads 40 years later. Am I strange or not.?
Back to praying for others: There is no greater gift you can give to another than to let them know that they are in your prayers. I was a recipient of this gift when I was recovering from breast cancer surgery and spinal fusion. Frustration and depression was often expressed during this time and knowing I was being prayed for lifted me up. This is an experience that many former C.S.st don't understand for a while, but when understood, it is beautiful.
I'm just rambling on , but am writing with my first "gut" reaction to the post. Gail
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Posted Tuesday, December 07, 2004 7:30 PM
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Thanks to everyone who responded with some form of "it's OK" and that it is a welcome gift! When I first started attending Taize style services where we were invited to speak aloud the names of those we were collectively praying for it was a little odd to me, fresh out of CS, but the moment I first spoke a name it was so freeing to be able to honestly petition God on behalf of those most in need.
The first time I spoke a name out loud in such a service, it was of a man I'd worked with who had been diagnosed with a brain tumor. I have since spoken names of others, including my ex-husband, whether I had their permission or knowledge or not. As I get more comfortable with this concept, my circle widens of those for whom I pray.
So even though I may have trouble typing or speaking the words, you're all in my prayers... prayers of gratitude, and prayers of petition, for guidance, wisdom, health, and protection.
- Jean W.
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