 Posted Monday, March 14, 2005 2:05 PM
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From Marion: "Although I was the only CSist in my family and most of my friends were not CSists...."
That's interesting. Have you told us your 'story'? Most here are either generational or, at least, got hooked by a family member. If you posted this somewhere, which thread? (Sorry for my memory as I usually read everything here.)
Nyoka
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Posted Tuesday, March 15, 2005 5:38 AM
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Dear Nyoka,
I sure posted quite a bit of myself - would have to look exactly where, but before I search: is there anything in particular you'd like to know?
Marion
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Posted Tuesday, March 15, 2005 7:31 AM
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Marion:
Thanks for asking. Yes, I'm interested in knowing how you came to be a CSist since no family members are involved in the church. Were you 'witnessed' or 'evangelized' by a friend? Read about CS? Had an illness that wouldn't 'yield' through medicine?
I've always wondered about the wide and broad growth of the Mormon Church, for instance. Are people walking off the street into these strange beliefs or, like the Catholics, is there an ulterior motive for being against contraception? This may be one of the reasons for the decline of the CS church (no body believes in sex!).
Many 'cults' have a way of growing for some reason.
Nyoka
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Posted Tuesday, March 15, 2005 11:12 AM
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Hi Nyoka,
no, don't think that I actually ever wrote that here in a thread. So let me give you a short overview - feel free to ask if you wish to know anything of that in more detail:
was baptized as a child in a catholic church; parents never attended church according to what I remember, my maternal grandmother was a very devout catholic, paternal grandfather was a very devout presbyterian protestant (my father had to convert to catholicism as a condition of my paternal grandfather to let him marry my mother), which means I grew up with an understanding of both major Christian churches in this country. But for whatever reason, maybe because it was the grandparents' generation and it wasn't the done thing for so many younger people to practice religion, or that I just couldn't understand: I felt it was all nonsence and cancelled the official membership which had begun with my baptism. You could have called me an atheist then.
Work brought me in touch with Arabs and Islam. Although I met quite a few jerks among them, I also met a good number of people who led remarkably good lives, practicing their religion. For the first time, I came in contact with a younger than grandparents'-generation of people who actually valued God, their religion and stuck to its rules as much as they could. I started out reading about Islam - initially just to understand these people better. I then briefly read about the other major religions, but Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. didn't very much touch me. Some time later, it must have been in my mid-twenties I asked myself if I actually read about Islam and religions out of curiosity, or an interest in these people, or if I also believed in God. I did then confirm, yes, I did believe in the existence of a God. But I could at that time not believe in the picture my childhood religious education had given me. I didn't even have a clear perception of God, but I felt I could accept God as "the beginning of everything, the starting point". I was even briefly thinking of becoming a Moslem as their understanding of God seemed so much clearer to me. But something always held me back. Whether it was the difference in treating women, or the feeling that it didn't really belong to our culture, no idea.
When in my late twenties, I kind of longed to be part of a church or other community of believers and thought that I should take another look at the Christian denominations (besides the large ones: catholicism, lutheran, presbyterian (although that is rather small to be honest). I made myself a list and sought information on them. CS was 2nd or 3rd on my list. What I thought was cool about it, then, were a few simple things:
- it was founded by a woman, and it was one of the very few places where women were not told that they were 2nd class (at least this was how I then understood it)
- to me the bible was already then of great importance, and CS claimed that it valued it very much. I was, unfortunately, much too ignorant about bible contents to notice that S&H diiffered so much. I understood the readings from the bible and S&H to reflect the wish to really stick to the books - compared to short sermons in the "big" denominations which were very often dull and more on social issues and politics rather and religion, I thought that was ok
- members of the church seemed to care (at least they knew each other; and there were more than a dozen regular attendees - ie good for German standards!)
- the healing part didn't initially pull me, but when I had one of my then regular migraine headaches, I "tried" CS healing and called a practitioner. Healing took a good day (which means the headache probably just disappeared in spite of the praying) and I wasn't very impressed with it, thought that a pain killer would have done a much quicker job. What impressed me though was, that I used to have these headaches regularly, almost every week - and they did not come back after the CS "headling". And I took that as proof, that CS did the more thorough job, even if it takes a little more persistence.
What I didn't notice at the time but I am sure now helped me get stuck with CS for a very long time: I had been in an abusive environment as a child for several years, and then lived with relatives where I had to be grateful constantly that I was allowed to be there. I coped by not thinking of it, not looking back and seeing to finding my own appartment, get a job etc. But once I had secured all that, these things came up again to be looked at psychologically. I didn't know that this would happen, but it was around the time I had found CS - and what better "religion" than to work out these things in a spiritual way .....
I think I wrote my way out of CS in this forum (report from an ex-cs) so I will not repeat it here.
Marion
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Posted Tuesday, March 15, 2005 11:13 AM
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| of course it must read: as a condition of my maternal grandfather ...
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Posted Tuesday, March 15, 2005 1:33 PM
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Marion:
Once again, thanks for your time and taking care with the details. I actually went back and found your "report from an ex-CS" and do remember reading it when you first posted it. I do recall thinking at the time that it was refreshing to hear a story not punctuated by illness and death. State churches? We Americans, often thought of as and accused of being xenphobic, fear the idea of a state church (think George Bush) and it makes me shudder. At the risk of sounding really stupid (at my age I long ago gave up caring), may I ask if most Northern European countries are Lutheran worshippers (although I think you mentioned Presbyterians in there somewhere) as southern Europeans mostly Catholic, and England Anglican? I guess I know why the American Revolution took place. Nevertheless, your path led you to a Charismatic church and finding 'hundreds' of people in attendance. What does this say to you about the state of religion in Europe? We read 'statistics' in the paper, but who really knows more than church 'goers'?
My daughter-in-law has mentioned on her trips to Greece that there are mostly 'old' people in attendance and Greek Orthodox is certainly considered a 'state' church. What about Eastern Europeans, mostly Catholic? Russian Orthodox? Are evangelical churches gaining strength there also? I remember reading a 'leftist' article the other day stating that this country (USA) should not 'worry' about the charismatics, but the evangelicals are the worrysome ones. Would you know why?
Your most telling statement? Hoping that your new found beliefs do not turn you against them as what happened with MBE and the CS Church
Thanks again,
Nyoka
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Posted Tuesday, March 15, 2005 7:06 PM
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What about Eastern Europeans, mostly Catholic? Russian Orthodox? Are evangelical churches gaining strength there also?
Thanks for sharing your story, Marion, and you're asking some interesting questions, Nyoka. But this is getting WAY off topic and I'd like to see this thread focus on "success stories in 'reaching' friends/family members." Please start a new thread if you want to continue discussing relgion in Europe (and I hope you will).
Linda (Moderator)
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Posted Tuesday, March 15, 2005 11:57 PM
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Hello Anonymous!
It's always refreshing to see a new person posting their stories. Could you please share with us how you AND your husband found your way out of CS. I'm sure you could do it on this thread because it is a "success story".
I share your enthusiasm about finding this forum where you discover you're not alone anymore! Tell us how it's going with sharing your new beliefs with CS family. Are you keeping a low profile for now or taking the risk of dialoguing?
Barb
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Posted Thursday, March 17, 2005 3:06 PM
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Hi - it's me, the "anonymous" from above. My name is Courtney.
My background with CS goes back 5 generations, all through the women of my family. It started with my mother's mother's mother's mother's mother, I think! I used to be so proud of that and now I wonder why it lasted so long in my family. Anyway, my mom was CS and my dad became one during the time I was growing up. I spent 8 summers at Cedars and 4 years at Principia College.
Sometime during my college years it simply dawned on me that I hated CS. It was always making me feel inferior. I had legitimately tried to be a "good" Christian Scientist, but I just knew in my heart that it was wrong. I was tired of listening to people lecture me about making CS "my own," which in my opinion meant reaching a point where you were willing to say anything, no matter how ridiculous it sounded, to justify MBE's teachings. I always hated talking to practitioners, because of the sly guilt they laid on me when I couldn't have an instantaneous healing. And I always thought it was absolutely, flat-out WRONG that they BILL you for their prayers. That still makes me shudder.
Anyway, my husband and I met at Prin and we were both pretty unsure about our futures in CS. We got married after graduation and moved to a city where neither of us had any family members living. We attended services at 2 different CS churches here and they were just so cold. I realized it was the perfect time to break our ties and we've been so happy with the Methodist church we joined. I love the fellowship and support we get there. I love how people don't turn their backs if you have a "challenge" with something - anything! And I love being able to read my Bible without trying to put it through a CS filter.
Since I left, it's been a struggle with my family. I tried to talk to my mom about what I read in Caroline Fraser's book and she just got mad at me for saying less-than-pleasant things about her dear "leader," so I have never brought the subject up again with her. When my grandmother found out that I left CS, she looked upset and asked why. Not wanting to get into a long discussion, I just said I didn't believe it. Her response was, "You mean you don't understand it!" So typical....
I'm very thankful that my parents were not "Super Scientists" (their own term for the really radical ones). I never suffered severe pain in my childhood because for the "big things" we used doctors. But I still have a lot of pent-up anger about growing up in that religion. I won't go into it!
Anyway, that's my brief history
Courtney
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Posted Thursday, March 17, 2005 8:21 PM
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