 Posted Tuesday, November 27, 2007 11:43 PM
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| It was in the early 80s that you had the measles epidemic, which struck several areas where there were concentrations of CS collegians. There was a similar outbreak in the Boston area, especially at Boston University, but nobody died there.
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Posted Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:28 AM
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I went to Prin in the first half of the 70's. I loved it then. Many stories of abuse, favoritism, etc. came out later, though. I was oblivious while I was a student there -- as a 4th generation CS, I was pretty darn sheltered! My cousins went through the Lower, Middle and Upper Schools. My aunt is still very deeply involved in the church and Principia despite losing both her first and second husbands to CS treatment.
My ex-husband went back there to teach in the early 2000's. He was very troubled about the gay student who was expelled for supporting gay rights and coming out. Not surprising, since my ex was gay himself -- and had to stay VERY much in the closet while teaching there!
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Posted Sunday, August 31, 2008 12:15 PM
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Hello,
I am a bit concerned about the latent statements made here such as .." Losing both her husbands to Christian Science treatment..." How do you know that is what happened? do you indeed know that it was not these people's time to pass? Do you reallyy " know" that Christian Science does not work?
Christian Science is as effective as the mind which receives it..the consciousness which receives it, just as the medical arena is as effective as the minds which receive that. The pill you choose to take for cancer, or the treatment you receive, will be as effective as your Mind....allows it to be. If you repel it, and you are in all manner of negative emotional patterns of self-sabotage, you will not receive the treatment, either medical or Christian Science. A medical doctor will tell you that himself.
This entire segment of comments seems poised by people who are relaly not thinking. It is really emotional blogging with not a bit of substance to it. We all know in this day and age that we are what we think.
It is simple....change your thinking, and change your universe.......
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Posted Sunday, August 31, 2008 3:46 PM
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I find the statements by the anon. poster above so typical of the Christian Scientist...its just plain sad.
How does a WIFE know the circumstances of her husbands death? How dare you even question that? And you figure it was just their time to pass on? This IS the typical Christian Science view of what is really going on when someone is not healed by Christian Science treatment and its a really archaic way to think. If your child was choking on a piece of meat would you just stand there and let him choke to death and say it was just his time to die? NO? Or is it yes. We feel no differently about Christian Scientists who die needless deaths for illnesses that are easily curable with surgery or medications.
You are not the first CSer to come here and point fingers at their own kind and say shame on you, you didnt get a healing because it was your fault...you were not in the right state of mind, you were not mentally prepared, you didnt study hard enough, you didnt understand your own religion. Once again, just plain sad that this is the way you explain away the failure to heal. I have watched a life long Christian Scientist, college educated, class taught, ....struggle for months with an illness. He had a teacher for a practitioner. He was certainly prepared to receive a healing as he chose radical reliance rather than a doctor. He died "knowing the truth". I would tell you that there is no greater FAITH than suffering and dying for what you believe...so dont tell me he didnt study enough, or was not good enough. Are you saying he had a negative state of mind? Im sure he didnt think he did. If the bar for a healing is so high that these people's understanding is just not good enough then its not a religion to be embraced by ANYONE.
Your belief that medical science cannot help those in a negative frame of mind is ridiculous. Certainly a person who is actively wanting to die is not as good a patient as one who actively wants to live. But you are comparing apples and oranges. A Christian Scientist who does not get a healing from Christian Science treatment cannot be said to actively want to die.
Not thinking? YOU are the one not thinking. Dont you wonder why 99% of the educated world thinks differently than you do about medical science and healing? Christian Science was born more than a century ago and its failings are getting harder for even Christian Scientists to deny. Hence your decline of branch churches, memberships and the reason why more and more of you are using materia medica for serious health problems. My mother always said, "You never know until it happens to you." I have found this to be a very wise axiom. I pray that you see the light before some serious health problem hits you and you suddenly find the bar is too high for you...or maybe its just your time to go.
Square Peg
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Posted Monday, September 01, 2008 7:46 PM
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| Anonymus, "The pill you choose to take for cancer, or the treatment you receive, will be as effective as your Mind....allows it to be. If you repel it, and you are in all manner of negative emotional patterns of self-sabotage, you will not receive the treatment, either medical or Christian Science" If the pill you choose was only as effective as your mind I personally know of some people that would still be alive today. Medical science is not perfect and having a postive outlook "can" improve ones chances of survival but is not fool proof and neither is CS. I know that MBE says that properly applied CS will work for everyone but the evidence in the lives of the people on this site and those who have died demonstrate a very different conclusion. I have intentionally stayed away from bashing CS becuase while I am closely connected to it I have not suffered any abuse from it. Many people on this forum have been hurt in some way by CS and are not sheep waiting to be regathered. I don't think it demonstrates Christ like compassion to come in and suggest that they in some way have a defective mind set because they have been abused or had negative experiences. May God Bless You, Al
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Posted Tuesday, September 02, 2008 8:23 AM
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".... The pill you choose to take for cancer, or the treatment you receive, will be as effective as your Mind....allows it to be. If you repel it, and you are in all manner of negative emotional patterns of self-sabotage, you will not receive the treatment, either medical or Christian Science. A medical doctor will tell you that himself."
Anonymous;
This is the most uninformed statement (and I'm trying to be polite) statement that I think I ever seen posted by an adherent of Christian Science on this discussion board.
As to repelling treatment, my dad's own story proves that isn't the case.
My parents married in the 1940’s. My Dad was CS and my mother Methodist. What brought them together was their professional work, which was totally compatible. Religion would take a back seat, in other words, so they decided they would live with two separate faiths (unusual then-very common now) and raise two children in the middle of this.
Medical issues were also ever present. My Dad had a burst appendix when I was three. He addressed it only through CS for nearly three days, when my mother threatened divorce if he wouldn't let her call an ambulance. He finally did, and he survived 5 hours of surgery somehow in the 1950's. If he hadn't, I would have been fatherless for my childhood. (Tell me where in the Bible is says such a scenario is required or even suggested? To prove what?)
Conscious of treatment? He passed out the minute the ambulance arrived. My mother was the one who consented to surgery, etc. He was unconscious I think from the time he arrived at the hospital. He was in no position to accept anything. Yet again, I had father throughout childhood thanks to M.D.'s ( I won't begin to tell you what my mother observed with the practitioners when a healing didn't come. My dad was also the soloist at his church which put the pressure on all the more.)
As for M.D.'s telling you that treatment won't take hold if you repel it, this is not true at all. I spent 13 years working in hospitals and had a great deal of contact with M.D.'s and never once heard this statement. I also had a lot of contact with pediatric medicine. Youngsters are often very reluctant to receive treatment, yet they are successfully treated daily. As for adults, a gentleman who does consulting work for us two weeks ago was in intensive care at a nearby hospital. He was in for a heart condition, and they were trying to determine what types and levels of medications would work best. He was in and out of consciousness, and had to be tied down as he was constantly removing his IV's , trying to get out of bed, etc. Repelling his treatment? You bet. A couple days later, the medication took hold, and late last week he set an appointment with my boss to talk about his work schedule through the end of the year. He is home and doing much better.
These are in short, Anonymous, uniformed statements that you shared, but how could it be otherwise? MBE set up a wild system, whereby there has never been any evidence other than anecdotal that CS works. TMC has never consented to any scientific investigation of its claims of healing, nor would they. CS'sts, who by and large think they know everything about diagnosing as illness (albeit caused by "mortal mind) but in fact know nothing, are of course the ones to report healing.
Then how is it, might you ask, that Christian Scientists are indeed healed?
1. CS is right. The CSist "thinks" they are sick, but aren't really at all. Yes, hypochondria, anxiety, panic attacks (my dad had them regularly), etc. do exist in CS, and I personally believe MBE may be personally the best example of these. (For reference, you may want to read "The Life of Mary Baker G.Eddy and the History of Christian Science" by Willa Cather. If only 1/10 the incidents reported in this book are true, then if proves my point).
2. A minor illness or malady is self diagnosed as something more serious (heartburn vs. a heart attack).
A "healing" occurs when in reality it doesn't.
3. An illness or injury occurs but its heals itself normally. Since Cs'ists don't know anything about medicine, they assume that while it has taken some time to take hold, their "demonstration" or" knowing the truth" strongly enough has finally worked and they are healed.
4. In a weak moment, they seek medical care, but continue to apply CS thoughts and principles. Their medical treatment works (or begins to), but they give the credit, of course, to CS.
5. There is a true injury or illness (maybe serious), but they benefit from what medicine could call "spontaneous remission". That is, their cancer (and in many other persons) may go into spontaneous remission for reasons which aren't clear today in medicine (but may be tomorrow). Their "healing" is due to workings of the body, not CS. The difference is this has occurred without them seeking treatment, while in others who do their remission would be so noted by their M.D. (Bones heal faster is some folks than others, too!)
6. Although there may be other explanations that I've missed, let me end with this one. Yes, they are ill or injured, and yes, they are miraculously healed. But is this due to CS? No. It is due to the intervention of the Triune God who for reasons known to Him has decided to heal through the Holy Spirit. (God's ways are not our ways, and his mercy is infinite). I don't want to guess why God does things, but a couple reasons why the CSists were healed could be that they were actually Christians early in life and the Holy Spirit remains with them. The Lord may also not be done with them yet, and will bring them to Christ at a later point in life and so chooses to heal at this time. Anyway, those speculations are strictly my own and from nobody else-right or wrong.
One more thing: does healing "prove" the truth of a particular religious teaching? If so, how do you explain that there are credible instances of healing in churches which would hold that CS is not Christian, and that's its teachings are totally incorrect as far as man being only spiritual, etc.? (I can give examples if someone wishes). Nobody in CS has ever been able to explain that to me.
Anyway, I felt called to share. Have a good day.
John
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Posted Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:39 AM
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Anonymous (8/31/2008)
I am a bit concerned about the latent statements made here such as .." Losing both her husbands to Christian Science treatment..." How do you know that is what happened? do you indeed know that it was not these people's time to pass? Do you reallyy " know" that Christian Science does not work?
Both my uncles were under Christian Science treatment when they died. How do I know it was "not their time"? What an odd question for a Christian Scientist. It's never anyone's time to die, according to Christian Science. You ought to know that if you study CS. Anyway, my uncle was only 32. The second uncle was only 60. I don't know how old you are, but I am 56, and let me tell you, 60 is not "time for you to die".
Christian Science is as effective as the mind which receives it..the consciousness which receives it, just as the medical arena is as effective as the minds which receive that. The pill you choose to take for cancer, or the treatment you receive, will be as effective as your Mind....allows it to be.
Oh, I see. Just like my teacher, you will insist that they died and it was all their own fault. How very convenient. Keep the troops in line by guilt and blame. (tongue very much in cheek) That kind of "blame the victim" thinking is exactly why I left CS. You know, strangely enough, if a medical remedy does not work, the doctor does not shrug his shoulders and say, "You just didn't believe enough in that pill." He/she searches for another remedy that may help. I by no means claim that medical science is perfect. But most doctors and nurses at least have some compassion and willingness to help, whether you believe in their particular philosophy or not.
And you need not "explain" CS to me. I am class taught.
If you repel it, and you are in all manner of negative emotional patterns of self-sabotage, you will not receive the treatment, either medical or Christian Science. A medical doctor will tell you that himself.
No medical doctor I know, including my naturopath, tells me that. Proofs, please?
This entire segment of comments seems poised by people who are relaly not thinking. It is really emotional blogging with not a bit of substance to it. We all know in this day and age that we are what we think.
It is simple....change your thinking, and change your universe.......
What substance would you like? You only want to hear of healings attributed (without proof) to CS? Don't want to hear about people dying under CS treatment? Since I had two uncles, two grandparents, two great-grandmothers, my mother-in-law, my ex-husband, and many friends, all of whom were under CS treatment when they died, and the majority of whom were class taught, life-long Christian Scientists, that is a fact. But I suppose you are saying if I change my thinking, they will all come back to life.
Like the people who died during the measles epidemic, these relatives and friends died while under CS treatment, despite the claims of Science that all disease conditions can be healed. Most of them were not diagnosed, so I will freely admit I do not know if they could have been saved by medical treatment, although in the case of measles, certainly they could, since people do not die of measles in this day and age with even rudimentary health care. I do know that those of my family who died did so in great pain, which medical science could have avoided, at least.
And yes, I am emotional about it, and I do not apologize for being so.
Ann
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Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 10:37 AM
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"5. There is a true injury or illness (maybe serious), but they benefit from what medicine could call "spontaneous remission". That is, their cancer (and in many other persons) may go into spontaneous remission for reasons which aren't clear today in medicine (but may be tomorrow). Their "healing" is due to workings of the body, not CS. The difference is this has occurred without them seeking treatment, while in others who do their remission would be so noted by their M.D. (Bones heal faster is some folks than others, too!)
6. Although there may be other explanations that I've missed, let me end with this one. Yes, they are ill or injured, and yes, they are miraculously healed. But is this due to CS? No. It is due to the intervention of the Triune God who for reasons known to Him has decided to heal through the Holy Spirit…."
Last week I shared six reasons why Christian Scientists either claim or experience healing. #5 and #6 above mention that reasons for the latter may be either spontaneous remission, or the intervention of the Holy Spirit directly.
On Friday, I received the following mass e-mail regarding a young man whom hundreds if not thousands of Christians were praying for:
"Praise and thanksgiving on behalf of (Joe-not his real name) whose doctors sent him home saying treatment wasn’t working and his leukemia was drug resistant. They put him on a 2 week treatment and said that if it didn’t work they couldn’t do any more. After being prayed for by many people and hands-on by prayer teams (his) bone marrow test showed no detectable leukemia! In 2 weeks his leukemia count went from 55% to no detectable cells….."
An example of 5 or 6 above (or both)? You bet!!!
Lest there be any question, "Joe" is not CS, and has never been. He and the folks praying for him both believe in the Triune God, and are very active in congregations which believe the same. They do not believe in the impersonal God of CS, or a spiritual only man of metaphysics or MBE. There can be no explanation for the above under Christian Science.
John
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Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 11:32 AM
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| Great news, John! Thanks for sharing this.
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