 Posted Thursday, December 18, 2008 6:31 AM
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| "It is simple....change your thinking, and change your universe......." Then why do we need CS???
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Posted Thursday, December 18, 2008 9:43 AM
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| The theory of Christian Science IS in its own way beautiful and inspiring. Its PROMISE of there being no sin, disease and death and that we all are the perfect children of God is wonderful. But that does not mean its true. The Germans were once led to believe that the Arian race was more attractive, smarter and stronger than everyone else and, if you were an Arian, must have felt pretty darn wonderful. But a wonderful theory in concept does not mean its viable. And no one here is saying that Christian Scientists as people are bad, or that Principia is full of bad people. But just because people are nice, good, generous, reverant, spiritual, devout, does not mean that Christian Science is a true theory. Most people who come to this forum for support have lived decades as or with Christian Scientists and have seen first hand the "theory" of Christian Science tested, time and time again, and it has come up far short of its claims of healing, TRUE HEALING in life threatening situations. First and foremost, its extremely unwise to bet your life on testimonies, articles, stores of healings. This is only heresay evidence. I have talked with so many CSers over the years with a somewhat serious problem, who, thinking of all these articles and testimonies would say, "why cant *I* get a healing?" Young people who are wowed by being healed of a stomach ache, rash, or a headace are usually just assigning the normal passing of a problem as a healing. The true test of CS comes when people develop illnesses that dont normally just go away on their own. A good example would be the measels epidemic which hit Principia. Measels is pretty much unheard of in the US today, except among small groups of people who remain un-immunized. Its a tradedy that young people died at Prin when an immunization would have saved them. And it should be a clue to a rational person that Christian Science does not heal. That all those with measels did not die is not some sort of a sign that it healed some of the students, as measels does not kill everyone, only some. To the world at large, its hard to comprehend how Christian Scientists can overlook this very solid demonstration that even in the surroundings of a college full of class taught followers of Mary Baker Eddy, young people would die, and could not be healed...of an illness that medical science had conquered decades before. I personally have watched a class taught friend die because he depended on CS to heal him. I also watched my own class taught husband come to the brink of death twice waiting for that healing. Both times he was in so much pain that he finaly went to the hospital where he was brought back to the world of the living. I have seen many more family members who never saw a doctor their entire life die of illnesses that were wildly out of control by the time they would go to a hospital. Diabetes, cancer, heart failure..... When you are taugh a religion by your parents, from birth, its not easy to think outside the box you are in. We all love our parents, and its hard to see them as flawed in any way especially while you are still young. Its still a mystery to me why my husband still clings to this religion, and I have lived with him for 40 years. He has seen all that I have seen, all the unnecessary suffering, the unnecessary deaths, the countless times that there was no healing of his own semi serious problems, migrains, gout, prostate enlargement. Yet he still says, "Its DOES heal, it DOES" Im sure he was saying that as he lay in his bed at the BA in Chestnut Hill and had a stroke, (he gave up his anti blood clot medicine) because he wanted to be more spiritual and get his healing. As a young person you probably dont fully understand the meaning of death and suffering. Nothing against you, it just usually takes time and experience to comprehend what DEATH and TIME means and what suffering means, and the difference between a life of 19 years...the poor Prin students, and 79 years, an expected life span. You probably have not seen someone you love die too young. I find myself outraged at these unnecessary deaths, and outraged at the calm acceptance of them, as if the person wanted to be dead and in that other place. Its wrong and unnatural. Yes, I have come to believe that Christian Science IS indeed a cult. If you are interested, read the posts on this fourm which will detail for you the horrors of the life of many former Christian Scientists and they will lay out for you the tell tale signs of a cult. Square Peg
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Posted Tuesday, December 23, 2008 11:21 PM
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| Your right, it is unwise to believe in something from stories. And just because a rash goes away doesnt mean that it was healed. For most of my life i believed that cs [deleted by moderator] (lol that sounded funny) but seeing huge healings is what brought me to believe it. You could say that any healing that takes place really wasnt a healing, just something you overcomed or some excuse like that. But if it brings you happieness in being gone, does it really matter? A lot of material studies have even shown that happieness heals your body. When you see a doctor, they may say that you are going to die in a few days amd you wont be happy. Doesnt a connection seem apparent? Even if god didnt heal you, the thought of it brings you joy which goes back to joy healing.
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Posted Wednesday, December 24, 2008 8:13 AM
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A lot of material studies have even shown that happieness heals your body. When you see a doctor, they may say that you are going to die in a few days amd you wont be happy. Doesnt a connection seem apparent? Even if god didnt heal you, the thought of it brings you joy which goes back to joy healing.
It's true that attitude can help the body's immune system, but it simply won't make a tumor go away. I know LOTS of non-Christian Scientists who had cancer, got treatment, and are fine. (Yes, some died, but the vast majority of those with treatable cancers are alive and well.) That's a stark contrast from the Christian Scientists I know who got cancer, didn't get it treated -- or waited until the cancer was very advanced to get it treated -- and died horrible deaths. The contrast is stark, and it's backed up by the 1999 special Sentinel edition entitled "Cancer -- Healed!" that only contained 5 healings that spanned decades. It was a sad commentary on the CS claim that it heals cancer.
The "joy healing" you're talking about may work for ailments that are stress and attitude-related, but please don't use it for things like cancer, diabetes, measles, and meningitis. I know of too many Christian Scientists who used it for these ailments and died because of it.
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Posted Wednesday, December 24, 2008 6:25 PM
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| This phenomenon can also be considered from the perspective of the negative: stress. Rather than postulating that joy and happiness have healing power (I, personally, am an agnostic on the "matter"), it may be that stress is the active agent. I've come across news and health-story items in which many conditions are brought about, or aggravated by, stress. If this is the actual agent, then many forms of religion (Biblical Christianity, CS, and others), philosophy, and psychology can relieve stress, and, with it abated, prevent and/or heal various ailments. If so, then it's like the old DoubleMint Twins ad: "Stop! You're both right!" Just to tie this in to the Principia thread, a person's environment can also have a salutary effect. Living in a small, harmonious, bucolic community would certainly enhance wellbeing!
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Posted Wednesday, December 24, 2008 10:29 PM
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Linda,
You may be right that changing one’s attitude won’t make a tumor go away, but you’re wrong when you say Christian Science treatment (which is very different and much more than just changing one’s attitude) can’t. There are many documented cases of tumors being healed in Christian Science, far more than the 5 you mentioned were published in that one issue of the Sentinel focused on that subject, some published and others not (I know of two such unpublished cases personally, one of a family member healed of bone cancer and one of a friend’s mother healed of breast cancer ). Even though the issue contained only a tiny fraction of the healing being done for these kinds of problems, I thought that issue of the Sentinel was very inspiring myself – I mean, 5 cases of cancer healed without any medical treatment at all! Isn’t cancer supposed to be almost always fatal without treatment? But I guess that just goes to show how one’s perspective shapes one’s “reading” of a text. Where you saw a paltry 5 testimonies, I saw a periodical that usually only publishes 3 testimonies per issue expanding to squeeze in 5 longer-than-usual ones. (It was not a special edition, btw, just a regular Sentinel with a specific focus, as they all have.) But there were testimonies before that (I don’t know how many, but I’m sure if you wanted to go to a CS reading room and do a search of the bound volumes of CS Sentinels and Journals they’d love to help you and you’d find a lot more) and there have been plenty after that one issue too. Some have been in the print periodicals and more on the Sentinel Radio edition. Just searching online I found six additional testimonies of healings of cancer that were diagnosed and documented by physicians (and there were at least that many others without a diagnosis, some equally compelling). I also found an equal number of healings of diagnosed diabetes of several varieties, and also one of diagnosed spinal meningitis after the man was in a coma and beyond the stage when medicine could be of any benefit.
Here are some of the links (I wanted to include them all, but it made my post too long):
This one is of a documented case of cancer healed through Christian Science:
http://www.spirituality.com/article.jhtml?ElementId=/repositories/shcomarticle/Aug2007/1187810202.xml&ElementName=Divine%20healing%20brought%20complete%20cure
This is a healing of diagnosed diabetes (and some include healings of other diseases as well):
http://www.christianscience.com/blogs/healing-stories/diagnosed-diabetes-healed-through-prayer/
This is the healing of a diagnosed case of spinal meningitis:
http://www.spirituality.com/article.jhtml?ElementId=/repositories/shcomarticle/Oct2005/1129664383.xml&ElementName=Found%3A%20%22A%20deep-settled%20calm%22
While I realize that you do not believe CS treatment is effective and that other people have had bad experiences with it, there are many people who credit it with saving their lives (I am one), who have been healed of “things like cancer, diabetes, measles, and meningitis,” and have overcome many other debilitating and life-threatening conditions that you don’t mention. You have one perspective, but the whole truth is bigger than your view of it.
I went to Principia (in fact, I was there when you were, Linda, and I think I was even in a class with you once), and I also worked there for a while, and I found Principia is different for everyone. I appreciated being in a community that could support my efforts to learn how to practice CS without forcing it down my throat, and I felt the education I received was excellent (I’ve studied and worked at numerous universities since then, so I have a pretty good basis for comparison). One of the things that makes it good is that, based as it is on CS, it teaches students to think! That is something all educational institutions and experiences should do, but sadly many do not.
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Posted Thursday, December 25, 2008 12:00 PM
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I'm sorry but you miss the point of many posts - these healing testimonies you mention do not make Christian Science true. I did watch my own mother (a life long CS student, teacher, etc) die a slow and painful death from breast cancer.......all the while reading her lessons and other CS works faithfully, working with her practitioner, you name it - Of course I did not appreciate it when no one from her church was anywhere to be seen towards the end when she really needed them, but that's another subject.
I don't believe CS is false teaching because my mom wasn't healed anymore than I would believe it to be true if she was - as others have mentioned there are many religions, cults, witch doctors who have documented cases of healings. What we need is an objective source of truth to determine what is true and what is not and we have that in the Bible, the Word of God. Christian Science directly contradicts the Bible in many key areas and you can choose to believe it if you wish - but you can't believe both because they are mutually exclusive (I know CS claims to be based entirely on the Bible but it isn't).
I hope you can look beyond the healing issues to the doctrines of Christian Science. Personally when I was still a Christian Scientist I was just plain curious about what others believed and why they would want to attack something like Christian Science that was so positive and loving. I made a visit to a Christian bookstore and was just amazed at all the Bible study materials and was particularly drawn to the section on cults. I picked up a short book that was critical of Christian Science and bought it just to see what it had to say. It was very interesting reading and caused me to start an investigation that led me to the truth of the Bible and to a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I will be praying for you! (that really irked me when I was a Christian Scientist because I didn't believe I needed anybody to pray for me, so I really don't mean to do that!)
Best Regards, Brian
Brian
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Posted Thursday, December 25, 2008 10:21 PM
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| Brian I think you missed the point. Christian Science is the most Biblical Christian religion that I know and I have been to plenty of other denominations. The Bible says to pray in Spirit and in Truth. If your mother did that, then she did what Jesus Christ wanted her to do and therefore she was healed. I am sorry that your mother passed away, but every body in this world will die. However, your mother has eternal Life and if she knew that and prayed that Truth then all God will say to her is welcome my good and faithful servant. Again I am sorry that your mother died, but rejoice because the eye has not seen nor has the ear heard all the wonderful things that await your mother. Don't be mad at Christian Science, but welcome the peace she is having that passes all human understanding.
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Posted Thursday, December 25, 2008 10:29 PM
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Anonymous #15385,
Thanks for the links to the testimonials of healing. I'm glad to hear that some people have had good experiences and that you have found CS to be helpful.
I went to Principia (in fact, I was there when you were, Linda, and I think I was even in a class with you once),
Nice to hear you're a fellow Principian! I loved my years at Prin, value the education I received, and considered Prin a true home. I'm curious who you are but won't press the point. 
I agree with BC that the real issue is not healing-related but doctrinal. BC said it well: "Christian Science directly contradicts the Bible in many key areas and you can choose to believe it if you wish - but you can't believe both because they are mutually exclusive..."
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Posted Friday, December 26, 2008 8:18 AM
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Anonymous #15387,
The Bible says to pray in Spirit and in Truth. If your mother did that, then she did what Jesus Christ wanted her to do and therefore she was healed. I am sorry that your mother passed away, but every body in this world will die.
Sorry, but that's a "cop-out." Mrs. Eddy reprimanded her students when they prayed for her but she didn't get physically better (as in the "watches" she used to assign them -- see the We Knew MBE series and Dickey's memoirs for examples). I'm sure she wasn't pleased when people died under CS care even though they were under CS treatment and prayers. She expected tangible, physical improvement -- not death.
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