 Posted Friday, August 22, 2008 8:06 PM
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| Gentle Dove, A few years ago ("Search" is such a blessing!*) I posted the following. It came to my mind as I was reading your post noting that CS'ists are perfectly comfortable at accomodating "the relative" in maintaining their physical existence, but try to demonstrate "the Absolute" when it comes to their physicological well-being: First, even as a grade-school kid, I thought it odd (I would now say inconsistent or hypocritical) that CS'ists deny materiality but not materialism. I thought that we should be off in the wild, living simple, subsistence-oriented, hermitic (and chaste) lives so that we would be freeing ourselves of the bondge of materiality. Instaed, we all lived in comfortable upper-middle-class suburbs!
CS'ists should be ascetics in order to advance metaphysically.
Try sharing this idea with a comfortably affluent CSist! *I sed ascetic for my search...
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Posted Monday, August 25, 2008 10:40 AM
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Gentle Dove (8/22/2008)
I always wondered that too. Why is the dividing line at the medical point? I have seen such horrible results and suffering. Its like if they did stop brushing their teeth (because they are really just mortal illusions) then all their teeth would rot and fall out. If they stopped wearing glasses they couldn't read their Science and Health. If they stopped feeding their mortal bodies (illusions) they would starve.
I remember working so hard in CS to heal my nearsightedness when I was a child and teenager. I felt like a total failure because it never worked, and I had to wear glasses. I read a lot now about how it's okay to seek medical help. But when I was growing up and a young adult in CS, it wasn't like that. It was said that you could go to the dentist, but not use novocaine. I am now a total dentalphobe, because I remember torturous hours in the dentist's chair, having work done without any painkiller. I know I no longer have to do without painkillers, but my experiences remain with me. Also, bones could be set, which never really made sense to me if CS could really heal. But I learned from early childhood that you were not supposed to go to doctors. My grandmother (who was not raised as CS, it was my grandfather who was) had an operation for cancer. I was 12, and I was told no practitioner would pray for her while she was under a doctor's care. That's a pretty strong statement when you're raised in the church. Whatever they may say about being free to seek medical care, the peer pressure is very much against it. And some practitioners have said things like it's better to die under CS treatment than to go to the doctor.
The ones that deny itis taken to such extremes should just find some other church because if what she says is all so true, it would work and more times than not it doesn't. Other churchs haveanswered prayers and even healings, believe in a loving good God and allow MAN to live and express God and his goodness. There is no need to take such an extreme ridiculous stance on matter. The Christian Scientists are so inconsistent in their logic and behaviors.
That makes sense now, but it's not so easy when you're deeply involved in CS. When you are raised in it, you don't know anything else. You are taught that other Christian denominations are good, but not as evolved or enlightened as CS. So why would you go there? That's the way I was raised, anyway.
Another irksome point: Notice how they always give the glory to Christian Science.."IT" works in their lives as if "IT" the philosophy is what is working.
I never noticed that when I was in CS, but I heard many testimonies thanking Mrs. Eddy and Science and Health. I have heard testimonies where God was thanked, also. However, when the healing did not come, it was due to your own lack of spiritual understanding. That's what really made me leave the church. I am not a fundamentalist, nor do I even consider myself a Christian. So my concerns are not doctrinal. My concerns are the psychological damage that I see from CS ways of thinking, especially on those of us who were raised in the church, and whose families have been in it for generations. Linda's book was very eyeopening for me -- that CS is really a form of mind control, even though we're not living in compounds (although Principia came close!) And the fact that I learned at a young age, that my grandmother was abandoned by the church when she went for medical care. The same thing happened to my ex-husband. He had to be on medicines to stay alive after his liver failed, and while he was on the transplant list. But having been raised in CS, he was trying to work for a healing, yet feared that being under medical care was blocking the healing. It was added stress that he did not need. He did die before he got the transplant (only days from it), and I don't know how much he abandoned the medical care in hopes of the CS healing which never came. He wouldn't tell me.
Ann
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Posted Saturday, September 06, 2008 11:36 PM
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| My mother fell on a flight of stairs. She had compound breaks in like 3 places and several other breaks. She ended up in the ER and had imiate orthopedic surgery she has a nice collection of rods and pins in her legs now. She was fitted with these cool air walking casts and she was up and walking in 5 weeks. The doctor told her to wait until 6 weeks to walk, so walking at 5 weeks was her healing. I was there in the hospital with her and her doctor appointments, he never said she wasn't going to walk again. But her testimony is she recovered from a fall where she was told she was never going to walk again. She even sued the place where she fell! She divorced her husband of 38 years and used to say to me, Mary Baker Eddy divorced so its OK. She even goes by 3 names, 2 of them are last names. Talk about cult like behavior! She was a journal listed practioner. She has spent the last couple years in and out of CS nursing homes and hospitals, she has congestive heart failure, a totally treatable illness. She has now sold her home and moved away from her children and grand children to a cs place in California (The Willows) She has very little to do with her children I suspect I will never see her again, I dont think she will ever see any of her children or grandchildren again. She is in her late eighties now and has a serious illness that will kill her sooner (with much agony and pain) than if she has no treatment. I cant and dont want to imagine how it will be for her in the end, all alone. Sorry to ramble Its just such a sad sad situation
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Posted Sunday, September 07, 2008 5:21 AM
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| Jill: A similar situation happened in my Christian Science family. I really don't know what to say to make you feel better except that you are not alone. I also took comfort in the fact that the Christian Science nurses I have known and the ones that are taking care of your mother are very nice and caring. Although she is not getting the kind of help we believe is the best for someone in her situation, I hope you can take comfort in the fact that she is surrounded by loving people. There were times when I could not bear the fact that the church had stolen so much from me and then it took my mother as well. One day I found this Bible verse that I keep remembering over and over: "When my father and mother forsake me, then the Lord will take me up" Psalms 26:10.
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Posted Sunday, September 07, 2008 5:23 AM
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Posted Monday, August 24, 2009 9:39 PM
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Jill in Michigan (9/6/2008)
My mother fell on a flight of stairs. She had compoundbreaks in like 3 places and several otherbreaks. She ended up in the ER and had imiate orthopedic surgery she has a nice collection of rods and pins in her legs now. She was fitted with these cool air walking casts and she was up and walking in 5 weeks. The doctor told her to wait until 6 weeks to walk, so walking at 5 weeks was her healing. I was there in the hospital with her and her doctor appointments, he never said she wasn't going to walk again. But her testimony is she recovered from a fall where she was told she was never going to walk again. She even sued the place where she fell! She divorced her husband of 38 years and used to say to me, Mary Baker Eddy divorced so its OK. She even goes by 3 names,Mae Lea Nooe, 2 of them are last names. Talk about cult like behavior!She was ajournal listed practioner. She has spent the last couple years in and out of CS nursing homes and hospitals, she has congestive heart failure, a totally treatableillness. She has now sold her home and moved away from her children and grand children to a cs place in California (The Willows) She has very little to do with her children I suspect I will never see her again, I dont think she will ever see any of her children or grandchildren again. She is in her late eighties now and has a serious illness that will kill her sooner(with much agony and pain) than if she has no treatment. I cant and dont want to imagine how it will be for her inthe end, all alone.
Sorry to ramble
Its just such a sad sad situation
Anonymous
I am the brother of Jill. I can only hope that Jill will get on with her life. While I want to sympathize with her, I have no choice but see the life our mother has lived. I should correct Jill by saying that I was also at the hospital after our mother fell and did in fact hear the doctor say that she would not be likely to walk again. I am grateful that our mother Mae got the help she needed while in the hospital. I recognize that through Him all things are possible and more specifically that she got the help needed at this difficult time. I regret that Jill has nothing to do with her mother. I have been very involved with our mother as well my children and our brother. I can tell you as a Christian that I have seen the epitome of Christianity through our mother Mae Lea Nooe. She has lived her life being Christ like. While misunderstood, her life time commitment to being a Christian Science Practitioner has led her to a place that is truly a gift of God. It was donated by someone that evidently felt the need to also share the Love of Christ by providing a home for those that have spent their entire life helping others through the healing of Christ Jesus. I have visited and cannot wait to go back. The grounds are Peaceful, fruit trees in the yard and others that are like minded looking out for each other. It is unfortunate that Jill chooses not to be a part of her mothers life especially in these formative years. Mae Lea Nooe is full of Joy and lives her life knowing the unconditional Love of Christ. Mae has been a blessing to many. Often I meet people that know Mae only to hear their positive comments as to how she was able to help them when all other medical science had failed.
Grant
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Posted Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:12 AM
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Grant,
I'm sorry for the family strife your mother's situation represents. I get nervous when full names are used on the forums and would have edited your mother's name had it not already been used in a previous post.
One of the difficulties non-Christian Scientists and former Christian Scientists have with testimonies such as this is the reporting of third party statements remembered from stressful times. Your memory and that of your sister differ. Is there any way to validate your memories with a statement from the doctor who allegedly said your mother would or would not ever walk again? His records should indicate the prognosis on which he based his treatment. A prognosis is typically not as concrete as "will never walk again".
Do Go Be Man
<><
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Posted Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:28 AM
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Jill,
I understand what you are going through. My CS in-law had a dislocated shoulder for 2 days and finally got medical attention. My in-law tell you that this person was healed by CS, I and the world would like to believe it was the medical intervention. There's always 2 sides to the story with CS, the world's view and the CS view.
Take your brother's advice and let go as best you can. You can never rationalize with these people (I've been told this also by my in-laws own blood relatives, they have dealt with these CSs their entire lives). It's your mother and it's painful to watch but that's what the way it is. The beautiful trees and all that is what they will focus on. In the meantime, the large medical issues will be glossed over. Period, end of story.
Take comfort that you got out and your immediate family is not in the cult. That's the best you can do in these situations. I've taken a matter-of-fact approach to dealing with this. My spouse is now getting regular medical care after a long process of deprogramming by me, our children are legally protected from CS and are being raised in a main stream religion. I can't save my ederly in-laws, it's a generational thing. Quite frankly, as most of us are doing on this forum, we're just watching this religion "die out", literally.
Anonymous
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Posted Thursday, May 27, 2010 10:10 PM
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Anonymous (8/24/2009)
Jill in Michigan (9/6/2008)
My mother fell on a flight of stairs. She had compoundbreaks in like 3 places and several otherbreaks. She ended up in the ER and had imiate orthopedic surgery she has a nice collection of rods and pins in her legs now. She was fitted with these cool air walking casts and she was up and walking in 5 weeks. The doctor told her to wait until 6 weeks to walk, so walking at 5 weeks was her healing. I was there in the hospital with her and her doctor appointments, he never said she wasn't going to walk again. But her testimony is she recovered from a fall where she was told she was never going to walk again. She even sued the place where she fell! She divorced her husband of 38 years and used to say to me, Mary Baker Eddy divorced so its OK. She even goes by 3 names,Mae Lea Nooe, 2 of them are last names. Talk about cult like behavior!She was ajournal listed practioner. She has spent the last couple years in and out of CS nursing homes and hospitals, she has congestive heart failure, a totally treatableillness. She has now sold her home and moved away from her children and grand children to a cs place in California (The Willows) She has very little to do with her children I suspect I will never see her again, I dont think she will ever see any of her children or grandchildren again. She is in her late eighties now and has a serious illness that will kill her sooner(with much agony and pain) than if she has no treatment. I cant and dont want to imagine how it will be for her inthe end, all alone.
Sorry to ramble
Its just such a sad sad situation
Anonymous
I am the brother of Jill. I can only hope that Jill will get on with her life. While I want to sympathize with her, I have no choice but see the life our mother has lived. I should correct Jill by saying that I was also at the hospital after our mother fell and did in fact hear the doctor say that she would not be likely to walk again. I am grateful that our mother Mae got the help she needed while in the hospital. I recognize that through Him all things are possible and more specifically that she got the help needed at this difficult time. I regret that Jill has nothing to do with her mother. I have been very involved with our mother as well my children and our brother. I can tell you as a Christian that I have seen the epitome of Christianity through our mother Mae Lea Nooe. She has lived her life being Christ like. While misunderstood, her life time commitment to being a Christian Science Practitioner has led her to a place that is truly a gift of God. It was donated by someone that evidently felt the need to also share the Love of Christ by providing a home for those that have spent their entire life helping others through the healing of Christ Jesus. I have visited and cannot wait to go back. The grounds are Peaceful, fruit trees in the yard and others that are like minded looking out for each other. It is unfortunate that Jill chooses not to be a part of her mothers life especially in these formative years. Mae Lea Nooe is full of Joy and lives her life knowing the unconditional Love of Christ. Mae has been a blessing to many. Often I meet people that know Mae only to hear their positive comments as to how she was able to help them when all other medical science had failed.
Grant
I am glad she has been able to help so many people, its a shame she hasnt been able to heal herself, or her daughter who died at the age of 16.
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Posted Friday, May 28, 2010 8:24 AM
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I'd just like to say on this Jill and Grant post that no matter how you look at what the dr said or didn't say the fact is that their mother healed from the broken bones by BOTH prayer and medical intervention. While the medical help clearly brought results. and her recovery could easily be chalked up to good doctoring... the prayer part(as always) is unverifiable.
If this woman was/is such a saintly figure who displays all the christlike qualities her son describes then why did she have the fall in the first place? And Why did she not just declare the truth as prescribed by her beloved leader Mary Baker Eddy, and then rise up and walk immediately?
Yes Jill it IS a cult. Make no mistake about that.
It has a leader
it has a dogmatic doctrine that the entre world sees as cultish
it requires separating ones thought from mainstream religion
it reqires its followers to accept the leaders opinions as God given
it demands absolute adherence to the rules and noncompliant devotees find themselves suffering guilt
those who deviate or leave feel they have forsken God
it has secret phrases and terminology
the devotees show adoration to the leader and display her portrait
the leader is said to have 'special' anointing or power
the leader is written of in the bible
the leader lives off the donations of the devotees
etc etc etc
There may be truth in some of its doctrine but nothing its leader invented. Trusting God is not something Eddy revealed to the world. Faith wasn't her personal finding. God's goodness isn't some commodity to be sold as she did. God as love is not her discovery... the bible spelled that out for us.
born free
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